This is What a Franken-Fake 14900 Omega Constellation Looks Like


The watch pictured here and currently listed here on eBay by seller seamaster147 is a franken-fake. This may or may not come as a surprise to the seller, so let's all get an education in respect to this piece.

Described as a "rare vintage gents Omega constellation pie pan chronometer watch in stunning condition", the watch is anything but.   The dial is a complete fake with appalling dial furniture....can you speculate why? The case is highly suspect....for what reasons? The movement doesn't belong in this case....how come?

Feel free to post your comments on what makes this ersatz Connie such a dog. There is plenty of evidence on this site for comparisons. Pass the alert on, because unsuspecting bidders have already bid this piece up to USD 900 plus and there are seven days before the auction closes.

POSTSCRIPT:

I have received a number of 'vexatious' posts under the cloak of anonymity by an individual whom I suspect is the eBay seller of the above watch, some of which I moderated through and appear below. Clearly this correspondent is aiming to punish the messenger instead of engaging in  a little self-reflection on the morality of putting together such a dud and trying to pass it off as a genuine Constellation. In psychology we have a name for this: denial and displacement.  The latest diatribe contained a threat to bandy together with other sellers (I can only assume it would be others who have been exposed on this blog as selling fakes and frankens) to "stop" me.    My answer is this - facts and truth are a defence, and I will continue to occasionally post critiques of fakes and frankens as a means of warning innocent buyers of the tricks and ruses of frankenmeisters and fraudsters.
 

104 comments:

  1. David Howie4:26 am

    Let's see. Passes the MOY test. Batons look OK. But there's something wrong with 'Constellation.' shouldn't there at least be a dot over the i?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous7:24 am

    This watch is fake, the seller makes thousands of pounds a month by selling vintage omega watches, that have been heavly polished,some are total original but many have had poor redials and this is only going to flood the market with fake dial and case omega watches.Hes only in it for the money and must be stopped !!!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hello,

    I would say that, on the 'Constellation' writing, first the dot on the 'i' is missing; then, the second vertical bar on the 'n' is way too curved when compared to original pieces.

    If I am right, would you mind giving me your thoughts on this current bay watch http://bit.ly/x7SUj9 ?

    All the best,
    Olivier.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Spot on re the Constellation David. Script too big, lettering not quite correct and not dot over the 'I'. When you look at the markers at magnification you'll note that they are pointed and not black onyx.

    Agree Anonymous that the watch is a franken-fake. One way to stop this is to lodge a complaint with eBay, which I have also done.

    Thanks for your input both!

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  5. Olivier, correct re the Constellation script.

    Re the 14381. Nice original dial, crown is worn but ok, case back medallion is a little worn, movement looks clean. Hands are a bit big for this slightly smaller 14381 dial and have probably been replaced. Otherwise quite tidy and certainly a correct and genuine case.

    Cheers

    desmond

    ReplyDelete
  6. i agree with the dot on i
    but i have seen a couple of mistakes the dial is a refinished the number in the back of the plate ,correct me if i am wrong but i almost sure that is a laser job to clean to neat (i compared with too pie pan that i have )
    the inner ring (2pieces) that center the movement dont belong there ,please correct me if i am wrong i am enthusiast not an expert
    i will be glad if you help me with this constellation i recently find I couldnt find any info
    thxs again i hope that i did help in somenthing

    http://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-constellation-14k-pink-gold-capped.322/

    (pardon my spelling english is not my native tongue)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Correct. Good spot with the laser instead of stamped 14900. Also you are correct, there should be no spacers of any kind around the movement.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  8. Thank you for you input Desmond.

    Furthermore on that watch, there is a missing small screw on the caliber (I don't know the name of this part in english, so I did a small drawing): http://bit.ly/zhszco

    As it can be seen on ranfft, there indeed is one screw missing! http://www.ranfft.de/bidfun/katb/2uswk/Omega_561.jpg

    As for the 14900 on the case, how should one interpret it? I looked for that reference here http://62.73.172.171/eMuseumPlus but I could not associate it with anything.

    All the best,
    O.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi Olivier, You have very sharp eye as I missed that one. Yes it is the micrometer screw and is essential to the regulation of the watch.

    14900 was a calibre 551 powered case which is almost exactly like a 167.005. Calibre 561 powered case 14902 and thus we know that this movement doesnt belong to the case.

    Regards

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  10. Right, but where do you get the informations about the case? I could not get any from the sites I know. I am obviously missing a source here.

    All the remarks that have been made so far should motivate some comments on the item sold on the bay, shouldn't it?

    Cheers,
    O.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hi Olivier,

    When I key in 14900 into the Omega database I receive a range of info about the model including calibre number (551)

    Are you not able to access that data?
    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  12. Sorry, Desmond, my mistake. It perfectly works!

    Cheers,
    O.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous6:27 am

    Hi!

    What do you think of this?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/280804175834?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648#ht_14923wt_1156

    I think this is fake.

    AS

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hmm interesting. This 168.0056 is a chronometer version of the 101X calibre. I note seller mentions the movement as a 1012, but on the pic, although not close-up, it looks to me to be a cal 1011 on the decal and has the adjusted script too.

    Case is excellent and dial looks pristine. I would need to see a close-up to very originality,. The movement rotor has wear marks where at some stage the rotor post or rotor bearings were in need of replacement. However I can see the corresponding wear marks on the case back where the rotor has rubbed and so I am inclined to believe that movement and case have probably been together since birth. Case may have been restored to its original finish.

    Overall, while I would want to check a couple of things more closely, I am inclined to believe that the piece is genuine.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  15. It just so happens that I have been watching this watch/listing though without the intention of buying, just to see what it goes for as I've just started my journey down the road of addiction that is Omega Constellations.

    I'd like to thank you for taking the time to put this page together in order to help others like me. I'm sure it will prove to be a valuable source of information to me in the future.

    However, I fear I may have discovered this mine of information too late as I've recently purchased this watch;

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290656624888&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

    and fear that the hands and dial may not be original. I believe the case and movement to be ok after reading your essay on counterfeit connie cases but still have my doubts.

    I would greatly appreciate your opinion of this watch.

    I would've normally e-mailed you for this but thought I'd drop it in seeing as I was posting anyway.

    Best regards,

    Jonny

    ReplyDelete
  16. I'm not saying for sure Jonny, but the dial may have come from a 14393 Constellation. Hard to nail down but the dial looks a little small. The dials on the 14381 and 14393 were slightly smaller and there could have been a switch. Hands look ok.

    Case is great and quite sharp. I'd need clear pics to see if there was even minor space between crystal ring and dial.

    Generally, 14902s had the full lettering that included Officially Certified, but with omega vintage watches one never says never.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  17. Desmond,

    Thanks for the quick response to my request, it is much appreciated.

    The watch is in transit at the moment but I will happily take some more detailed shots when it arrives even if they serve no other purpose than to verify your suspicions.

    It was the dial signature and the crown that first got me thinking something may be amiss, the fact that Officially Certified was missing and that the crown was not decagonal.

    FYI - The dial looks remarkably similar to the 14393 Connie shown in the advert on page 5 of your Omega Constellation Crowns essay which also has Officially Certified missing and sports a non-decagonal crown.

    Thanks again for your time and keep up the good work.

    Kind regards,

    Jonny

    ReplyDelete
  18. Paul V.5:43 am

    One thing that is funny is that the same Japanese seller of the watch discussed above (http://www.ebay.com/itm/280804175834) that you were enclined to think of as genuine is selling a VERY identical one:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/280804175834

    Thoughts?

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  19. hi desmond
    thanks for sharing all your knowlegdement of the omega constellation i already read the essay about the connie excellent info
    i recently buy this connie from a friend cuz the rareness of the dial can you check it out on this site i upload it there
    will be glad what you can tell me about that omega
    thxs again and keep the good work

    http://omegaforums.net/threads/rare-constellation-dial-manufacturing-error.329/

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hi PaulV

    I believe it is the same watch and the same listing. The numbers of the listing are the same.

    Perhaps you meant to link to a new listing?

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  21. HI SD

    Interesting about the 3 at nine o'clock. Two options, it is a dial maker mistake that quality control at the factory missed. That would be unusual because at the time 25% of Omega personnel were involved in the quality control process. Or it may have been put on later by a watchmaker after the 9 rivet failed.

    Only way to check is to remove the hands and check the underside of the dial. If there is no glue around the second 3 and the rest of the dial back is riveted and not glued, then you have an extremely novel and of course rare piece. But I am banking on the latter explanation because the watch would have had to pass many inspection points including that of the original dealership.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  22. hi thanks for your quick reply
    my curiosity make me took the watch apart i take a couple of pics on the back of the dial
    can you please tell me if this dial was treated by a jeweler
    thanks again for your time and wisdom
    btw . overall how you see this connie

    http://omegaforums.net/threads/rare-constellation-dial-manufacturing-error.329/

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous3:57 am

    Hi Desmond, Thanks for your input on this Franken fake. I'm looking at a similar Constellation on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/270890029095?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 with case number 168.005, but this one seems tricky. Any input? Thanks, J

    ReplyDelete
  24. Paul V.4:42 am

    Oops sorry, I can't copy and paste.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/280804175834
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/270894334516

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous4:43 am

    Hello, Just found this site and am trying to buy a Constellation. I see there are some pretty high quality fakes out there and was wondering if anyone could comment on this watch. Thanks in advance for your help and input.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/180793077619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true#ht_500wt_1089

    Thanks
    David

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hi J

    I am suspicious of this seller as they have offered frankens in the past. This one seems ok. Dial is original, case lugs a bit over polished, movement correct although some gouges in the bottom plate and rotor scratches, medallion is sharpish...and so its reasonable.

    If youre look for a solid 14k model of this watch in exc condition and at a reasonable price, I know a lady in Texas who is selling a family heirloom. Email me by clicking on the about me button in rh column if youre interested.

    Regards

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi PaulV

    No its a different watch - believe it or not. Note the different scratches under the lugs and the different wear on the rotor. Omega has always been a big name in Japan and this guy seems to be sourcing these models cheaply and doing a pretty good job on the case restoration. The movement in the latter listing is a better example.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous11:48 am

    Hi, I'm new to Omega collecting and purchased this constellation recently. eBay Item number: 180793788542
    Can you please comment on it's originality? Love reading this blog and would greatly appreciate your input.
    Thanks,
    Wayne

    ReplyDelete
  29. Yep it looks like a genuine 14766 to me.

    Cheers
    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous8:33 pm

    Thanks so much. I thought so, but the dial not having the "officially certified" made me suspicious. So i guess not all of them have that on the dial? The dial looks much better than pics. Thanks again. Love this site.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous8:38 pm

    Oh, one last thing. Do you know the correct beads of rice bracelet number and end piece number for this 14766?
    Thanks,
    Wayne

    ReplyDelete
  32. Yes the 14766, 14393 and 14381 generally do not have "officially certified" on the dial

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  33. 18mm lugs endlinks OME-026ST511 and BOR bracelet (stainless for eg) is 3010-000 These are the modern numbers for replacement braceklets. Normally can be found at Otto Frei and other parts suppliers. Cheers
    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  34. Good evening Desmond,

    May I have your thoughts on the following watch (that was sold at a pretty high price!)

    http://bit.ly/xTPIgh

    I checked the numbers and they fit (case and make and movement #); It is not a pie-pan dial but still appears to be original. It also seems correct on the MOY test.

    All the best,
    O.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Checks out fairly well Olivier.

    Crystal is generic, but overall not a bad example at all.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous5:14 am

    Desmond,

    And I am the buyer of the http://www.ebay.com/itm/270894334516 from that Japanese seller. For $520, not bad... it arrived today and it is gorgeous and after several hours appears to be keeping time very accurately.

    HOWEVER the seconds hand is behaving a bit erratically, it stops and then jumps 2-4 seconds, around the dial.
    Obviously I don't expect a diagnostic but is it a common enough problem, should I be worried, should I let it sit or wear it?

    Cheers,
    Paul

    ReplyDelete
  37. Congrats. It looks a nice piece at a very reasonable price

    It seems to me that the friction spring on the indirect centre seconds needs either adjustment (usually the case after a service) or replacement. Not a biggie. Check out "jerky seconds sweep" under diagnostics in the RH column of this blog.
    '
    They say the watch has been tested (beat rate checked on a machine) or serviced, but do not indicate which. So it's worth taking the watch to a watchmaker who has worked with Omega vintage to check it out, adjust the friction spring and see if there is plenty of lubrication. These 28,800 BPH movements need to be serviced every three to four years.

    Regards

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous5:00 am

    all vintage omegas need to be serviced every 18 months to 2 years and this is a known fact from omega

    ReplyDelete
  40. A know fact eh? Well, it isn't one known to this collector who also does much of the dis-assembling, cleaning and oiling of his own collection. I have also, in my correspondence with Omega over a very long period of time never heard the edict of 18 - 24 months service.

    With today's quality lubricants and indeed accurate timing machines, it is relatively easy to determine when a watch needs servicing. A combination of factors determine service intervals: wrist time versus downtime (there needs to be a balance so as to ensure no migration of lubricant); condition of parts and an estimation of tipping point to failure; how and in what conditions the watch is worn; the absense of catastrophe (such as water immersion) etc, etc. But generally, I would say that a service every 3 - 5 years depending on wrist time is a rule that is ued throughout the vintage watch repair industry.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous3:34 am

    if a watch is not had little wrist time it is important that a service is done earlier that 3/5 year,as the mainspring is still preasured manual or automatic,thus causing wear in the movement,a watch is best worn and run,this is why watch winders are good to stopp wear on the train wheels from the preasure of the mainspring,
    so watches need to be wound regular and run,correct me if im wron that if a watch is not worn for 5 years from a service being carried out does this mean the service can wait another 5 year as its had not wrist time,i think this is quite wrong,A WATCH NOT WORN OR RUN AT ALL CAUSES MORE DAMAGE TO THE MOVEMENT,
    a service is recommended just to check everything is ok mainly,also most watches need to be demagnatized due to the static field,regarding water immersion,if it has been tested to the correct preasure then this can be immerged in water for many years until the case is opened providing the crown is a screw crown,

    ReplyDelete
  42. Firstly, we must distinguish between new and vintage movements. There is a school of thought that vintage watches should not be left on a winder because friction still occurs with lubrication and micro-wear on parts over time adds up to major wear. When parts are scarce, generally, the prevailing wisdom is that a balance between wrist and down time is probably the best way to go.

    Secondly, the greatest pressure on the going train is when the mainspring is wound to the point that achieves best isochronism. Further the actual torque required to achieve that is quite substantial when you consider that approximately 50% of energy is lost in any watch before it gets to the escapement. When the mainspring has the least torque (in other words when it is let down) and the going train is not moving at all, the least possible stress (and thus micro-wear) on the going train will occur.

    So, with a balanced regime of wear and downtime, one is able to state with some confidence that, given the quality of today's lubricants, the recommendation of dismantling, cleaning and oiling of vintage movements every three to five years is sound advice.

    Firstly I have made no suggestion or comment about watches left unworn and so I am not sure about the point you wish to make. If I had a watch that had sat unused for five years, of course the first thing I would do is to clean and oil it as the oil may have migrated in places, congealed in others or at least have suspect viscosity.

    With modern (post 1960) amalgam metals in balances and mainsprings, it's rare to see a magnetised watch, although I am told some airport screening equipment has the power to magnetise watches. It is a simple matter to demagnetise a watch and the watch itself will tell you by erratic time keeping.

    In terms of water immersion, one of the constant issues with vintage watches is achieving a good seal at the crystal, crown and case back. Sometimes previous water or perspiration-caused corrosion of the case makes it very hard to achieve a good seal. With gold cases there is often wear at the crown pipe and case back which, again, makes its difficult to achieve a good seal. I recommend that wearers of vintage watches never assume that they are fully water-resistant and that quality vintage watches are only worn in condition where there is not the presence of water or likelihood of more than a little wrist perspiration.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous2:40 am

    I'm trying to authenticate a vintage Omega Constellation Model 168.005 with 561 Calibre. Case is 18K pink gold top with stainless back. Any insight on how to verify this is a genuine is much appreciated.

    David.cochran@mjsa.org

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hi David

    Good thing is that gold capped cases were not faked. So you need to do due dilligence. Check out dial to ensure it is what it is stated to be - examine it against known genuine dials (there are plenty of resources on this site for checking the watch including an authenticity checklist). Check out movement and ensure that "adjusted to five (5) positions and temperature" is marked on the rotor bridge; check out the movement for even colouration and also for signs of rust on the steel parts; Look at the case for signs of wear or indications that the plaque has worn through to the metal; check out the case back medallion to see how sharp it is and the existence of the eight stars; make sure the hands just over-reach the chapter ring and ask the seller questions if you're unclear about any aspect of the watch. And of course good luck in your purchase

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hello Desmond,

    David must be speaking of item #260940625345 which is **very** close to the previous same watch by the same seller #270890029095 on the Bay. I would say that #260940625345 has a dial not so looking good (the fonts are too heavy).

    ReplyDelete
  46. You're getting good Olivier!

    I would agree with your assessment, and while the seller says the dial has never been redone, the uppercase font does not have serifs (as far as I can see in the pics) and the printing is, as you say, too thick. It also does appear to be slightly embossed. The Swiss Made font is not correct.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Thank you! I owe this to you since your wonderful site helps so much in understanding and learning about Constellation's

    A noticed an additional thing: the corners around the date are not curved (it's probably not the proper term) like they should be.

    ReplyDelete
  48. The seller seamaster 147 is a con man.He has multiple user names on ebay and used to move from one to another when he received negative feedback.Once,he left negative for an item he purchased from me but the auction had only ended ten minutes previously so he had not even received the item.I would warn anyone from buying from anyone who claims to be a "retired Omega employee" unless they can prove where and when they worked.I worked for seiko for ten to twelve years but only as a salesman for the distributor.I could not repair a watch!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Terry, interesting feedback.

      I agree with your sentiments about claims of affiliation.

      Cheers

      Desmond

      Delete
  49. He All
    I’m new to the Omega World but … want to start. Just found the interesting offer in my country (Poland) and start reading your blog and I’m getting scared to buy as there is so many fake stuff.
    See the link :

    http://allegro.pl/14k-omega-constellation-chrono-piepan-jak-nowa-i2092904579.html

    can I ask you to your opinions ? I know description is in polish but the pictures are high resolution. Does this one looks original to you? (I see it is not “officially certified” but still Omega original??)

    pls advice
    appreciate your prompt reply

    marcin

    ReplyDelete
  50. Marcinbest, the dial looks good to me, although generally a 168.005 should have Officially certified. The rotor has been replaced as you can note the different colour between it and the movement.

    I would be slightly aprehensive because of the dial, which should be seen only in model 14393.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous4:19 am

    Hi Desmond,

    On the subject of Franken watches, I emailed an ebay seller "merrybee22" who was selling a watch which had the wrong caliber, and a refinished dial, as an original pie pan.

    He immediately took the listing down and asked for help on rewording the listing, to take into account the problems with the watch.

    I just thought you could mention this, as he seemed genuinely concerned about ensuring his listing didn't mislead anyone.

    Thanks
    Nick

    ReplyDelete
  52. Rasmus C6:31 am

    Hi
    Very interesting reading here.
    Just bought my first Omega watch:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/270907196098?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_6427wt_1182

    Original redone dial and i paid 500USD incl shipping.
    Is this a fair price and do you have anything to say about the watch?
    Thanks

    Rasmus

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Rasmus,

      Around 500 is what I would expect to see a redialled cal 564 model go for.

      Would probably pay you to have the movement checked out to make sure there is plenty of oil in the right places.

      Welcome to the Connie club!

      Delete
  53. Rasmus C5:19 pm

    Thanks for your reply.

    And what would the value be if not redialled?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ah, now that's a different proposition all together.

      A model of this vintage with a genuine black dial in very good condition with sharp case and pristine movement would be worth anything up to 1800 USD because of the rarity of original black dials.

      Delete
  54. Anonymous2:39 am

    Hello Desmond

    I've been searching for a nice authentic pie pan Constellation for over a year now and your website has proved invaluable in assisting me in this process. However, I’m beginning to fear that this journey may continue forever, and certainly, good constellations seem to be getting thinner on the ground.

    Could I please ask you to comment on the watch below? The dial has been refurbished but it looks like a good one to me, and the watch itself looks very tidy. I’m really looking for reassurance that all the bits of the watch belong together and that I wouldn’t need to feel a complete idiot in paying the asking price.

    Thanks very much
    Dave

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1962-STUNNING-VINTAGE-OMEGA-CONSTELLATION-PIE-PAN-CALENDAR-AUTOMATIC-GENTS-WATCH-/251012086336?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3a717c7a40#ht_8266wt_1185

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Dave

      Not a bad restoration at all. The watch has scrubbed up well. Yep it is a redial, and this model 14902 should only have "Automatic" followed by "Officially Certified". The Constellation script is also wrong as it shows the post-67 lettering.

      Crown is correct.

      So this watch looks to be to be a very tidy refurbishment. The incorrect lettering on the dial would get to me personally, but of course its a matter of choice. Good original versions are around, but as you say, its a matter of trawling before the big fish finally gets netted.

      Cheers D

      Delete
  55. Anonymous4:34 am

    By the way,
    Checking the Omega vintage database (http://www.omegawatches.com/spirit/history/vintage-omegas ) I have some observations.
    I found a picture of model KO 14902 that had a wrong crown in my opinion (not the decagonal one shown in the example above).
    I could also find examples like CK 14381 where in the description for a model where specifffied dauphine hands but in the picture next to it there were not dauphine hands.
    Another thing that confused me were some model numbers. For example 168.017 and 168.0017 are the same or not? The same for 168.010 and 168.0010. I tend to considerr them the same but I may be wrong.
    The database doesn't seem very consistent from this points of view. I expected it to be more precise to take it as a reference, not only post pictures of watches I can find on eBay...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, you're right. Some of the pics on the database are of models that are not fully to specs. Omega has used pics sent in to the museum on occasions from people seeking to verify a model. Also some pics are of pieces in the museum collection.

      That pesky zero seems to apply on the database to all Constellations from around mid 1960s and so, say, a 168.010 marked on the case back does indeed become a 168.0010 in the database.

      It would be nice if the database was fully up to date and as you say correct.

      Delete
  56. Anonymous7:07 pm

    What do you think of this? The pictures are not superb, but for me at least the case seems it doesn't belong to this model.
    http://bit.ly/GLsr7F

    By the way, your site is great! I bought my first Constellation year ago (from local collector), now looking for stainless steel model for everyday use. This site has been very helpful to determine the authenticity, when I need to look from ebay and online stores.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. looks ok for a 168.004. The hands are incorrect though and the dial pic isnt big enough for me to authoritatively state that it is original and not refinished.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:37 pm

      As I have compared it to other similar models, for me it seems that dial must be refinished, the star under the "Constellation" seems to be postioned under "ll"-letters when it usually is positioned under letters "el". Even though picture is not very accurate, this seems obvious...

      Delete
  57. Al Fountain12:26 am

    Hi, Desmond

    Happy to write in here, found your articles most interesting and
    useful in order to avoid buying c.r.a.p. as this 14900 :D
    Where I live, in Southamerica, in some well known antiquity market,
    i've experienced already the proliferation of this 14900 garbage.
    If they tell me "look is from China, costs, 15$" it's ok, I just pass.
    But they dont tell you anything until after a stare at their faces,
    as a slow speak "But... this is cheinese, isnt it"
    I wish I could film their faces and send the video to you, quite fun.
    Of course I wouldnt get it right without some enlightnment from your part. Thanks a lot and rock on!

    p.s.: sometimes i've sen these 14900 being "aged" to look according...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Al, for your post.

      Yes, it appears these cases are everywhere and in some quantities, a very good reason for collectors to exercise caution.

      From the reaction you describe, it seems one can have an afternoon's entertainment :)

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:58 pm

      Regarding the 14900 Frankenwatch, I notice a few things wrong - there are no tiles on the observatory on the caseback, T Swiss T is strange for a watch with no luminescence on the Hands or dial, the bars that make up the date window are smooth and not faceted which is usual for a connie.
      Thanks Desmond for your tireless efforts
      Mark

      Delete
    3. Hi Mark. Nice appraisal. All points valid except the tiles. The observatory rood on this model should be plain.

      At this stage in the early sixties, tiled observatory roofs were a feature of solid gold models. Things changed later in the sixties.

      Regards

      Desmond

      Delete
  58. Anonymous3:39 am

    Dera Desmond

    This may be of interest to you. The link to your site may be an attempt to imply authenticity. It may of course be authentic, but you will be the best judge.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-GENUINE-OMEGA-S-STEEL-CONSTELLATION-PIEPAN-AUTO-CHRONOMETER-/160774377760?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item256ee65120

    Keep up the excellent work, fantastic website.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for letting me know - much appreciated.

      The watch appears to tick all the boxes, except there is scuffing at the rotor, indicating wear in rotor post or bearings. Prospective buyers should ascertain when the watch was last serviced and confirm that this problem was fixed.

      Yes, its interesting when these people link to my essays, particularly without letting me know or asking permission. A good reason to be wary and do due dilligence.

      Regards

      Desmond

      Delete
  59. Al fountain7:47 am

    Hi Desmond,

    as for the square parts, -the pie pan effect- in 14900 is too exaggerated,
    a very pronounced step, more than the original,...

    These are sharper-edges-looking china cases, I take it?
    eb 160778805326
    and 270949586558, the latter with that asian pearly white dial to match with... LOL

    isnt it a counterfeit case to claim? after all, neither external items
    -dial & case- weren't made by Omega

    Best regards

    ReplyDelete
  60. The first one is just a tired old thing and what makes the lugs look so sharp is that it is missing its bezel, and the second one is very cleverly photographed, so as to avoid close scrutiny of the case, but the dial is a fake for sure. Note the poorly rendered applied OMEGA lettering, the apparent painting of the the makers black where onyx inserts should be, and the incorrect script rendition. Case back looks decidedly fishy, but I would need better pics of the case middle before declaring the case body a fake.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Hi Desmond,

    I'm a newbie looking into the constellation market and being new I'm very much struggling to find a good deal on ebay. I have found watches which I'm pretty sure are fake, and other cases where i'm struggling to determine if something is a good quality original, or an original with a retouched dial.

    To help me grow in my authentication skills, would you be able to confirm this is a fake? I tried running the serial no. on Omega's website but it failed to return any no.s Also the no. of jewels stated for the movement's calibre seems inconsistent: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Omega-Constellation-14K-Gold-Day-Date-Swiss-Made-Automatic-Wristwatch-/230774347668?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item35bb391794#ht_500wt_1413

    On the other hand, I'm considering purchasing this watch and getting it refinished myself: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Omega-Constellation-Date-Cal-561-Steel-Gold-Unrestored-watch-1960s-/120893631392?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c25d26ba0#ht_1449wt_1396. Is it an euthentic original? or has it been pieced together with left over parts? Also, do you have any experience with finding places to refinish dials and how much this approximately costs?

    Finally, is this a deal too good to be true? http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-VINTAGE-CONSTELLATION-PINK-GOLD-TOP-RECENTLY-SERVICE-PIE-PAN-DIAL-NICE-/290699174721?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item43af056341#ht_500wt_1180

    I'm sorry that's a lot of questions, but at the moment I'm desperately trying to learn about constellations and find myself a good bargain (as a student I can't afford to pay the 800+ for some of the really nice examples I see).

    Thanks and best regards,

    Sam

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good call on the first eBay item. This watch is a franken and has the wrong rotor bridge. Genuine cal 751s will have stamped twenty-four jewells, and also "Adjusted to five (5) poisitons and temperature" on the rotor bridge. This is what is called a "signature" part. One explanation is that the rotor bearings or post were worn or damaged and a lazy watchmaker replaced the whole rotor and bridge with a 17 jewell calibre bridge.

      The second example is original except the crown, but is so, so tired. Not only the dial needs attention. There appears a fair amount of rust on the movement. Certainly a watch for watchmakers to play with - a costly refurbishment no matter what, and the medallion is worn. I would avoid

      Ebay pulled the third item, so it may well have been too good to be true.

      Good collecting Sam

      Delete
  62. Hi Desmond,
    what a great site you are running! Could you give me an opinion on the following watch as it would be my first Constellation:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110866303816?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

    Thank you so much and keep up the fantastic work with this site!

    ReplyDelete
  63. Genuine piece Herbert.

    Case was probably fairly scratched after years of wear and so the seller has had it polished: the bezel in particular is over-polished - the signs of the chamfer are still there but much diminished. Lugs are a bit rounded and the medallion on the case back is a bit worn.

    Dial is genuine and so this may fetch good money. Overall, it is a nice piece, however I would email the seller and ask if the watch has been recently serviced and while you're at it, you may like to ask what was done to the piece to bring it up to market. I dont wish to venture a value here as it could interfere with the auction.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  64. Al Fountain11:50 pm

    Hi Desmond,

    I supposse this

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mans-Omega-Constellation-Case-Crystal-Back-Crown-Stainless-Ref-14900-62-SC-/160788258838

    is another 14900 asian invention?
    regards

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Al.

      You guessed it. One of the most faked case numbers in the Constellation range.

      Note the sharp lug perimeters where there should be a chamfer. Also check out the poor faceting of the case middle just below the bezel.

      "Straight out of the parts drawer" tends to indicate it's been there a while, but the question the seller ought to be addressing is where did it come from before it hit the parts drawer :)

      Cheers

      desmond

      Delete
    2. Desmond

      Congratulations - I have learnt a lot from your site but am coming to realise I have more to learn than I thought.
      This looks like a very good condition Constellation here in the UK, but was worrying that the condition seemed to be too good. Would really appreciate any thoughts you might have.

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230774036848?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

      Delete
    3. Desmond
      Congratualtions on the site - I have learnt a lot and have come to realise I have a lot more to learn. Would really appreciate your views on this mid 1960s Constellation here in the UK - it seems to be in very good condition, but this worries me!
      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230774036848?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
      many thanks! Paul

      Delete
    4. This one seems ok. Still traces of original bevelling of the lugs. Original dial but replacement crown wiorth around 800 - 900 USD

      Delete
  65. Really useful site. What are your views on the general level of polishing done to certain watches prior to sale? Can this lead to actual harm?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Polishing must be done sensitively.

      Two cardinal rules in vintage acquisition are that original metal finish is preferable and sharpness of lines and edges adds collecting value to the watch.

      Anything that compromises the above, e.g. overpolishing, will affect both collectibility and value

      Delete
  66. Following my post from earlier, this is what would seem to me to be "overpolished" - would you agree? Seems like a high price at GBP1450 as well....

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STUNNING-OMEGA-CONSTELLATION-AUTOMATIC-CHRONOMETER-GENTS-VINTAGE-WATCH-c1966-/120905133483?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item1c2681edab

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Phew!

      Yes, I agree that this piece is overpolished. May be the pics but I can't see the chamfer on the perimeter of the lugs any more and the bezel is usually quite sharp at the edges in this model. Polishing mop appears to have obliterated the design lines.

      Delete
  67. Anonymous3:09 am

    hi desmond could you give me your opinion on this watch?http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/111349582124. many thanks for your help. also I like to say your site is excellent and im learning a lot thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A poor example of this model. Rust in movement looks like its been treated. Case rust and a rounded case which bears little resemblence to the original case finish.
      Cheers

      D

      Delete
  68. Anonymous10:34 pm

    Hi Desmond

    I would be interested in your view of this item on E-Bay 371171572396. I am just about to return it as on purchase and arrival the winder fell off.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A great lesson I'm afraid of not believing the hype of dodgy sellers. NOS means new old stock, and this watch is far from it. The dial has been refinished in black and the movement looks patchy. This is not a new old stock watch and therefore the seller has mislead potential buyers.

      I'm not sure if the winding stem or the crown fell off, but the price you paid for this piece is outrageous. Its worth no more than 400 USD

      Delete
  69. Anonymous11:52 pm

    Thanks Desmond

    I wish I had found your blog earlier. Needless to say, I will be robustly defending my right to a full refund. It was to have been my first Omega. I still like one very much as something to wear & cherish, but could/would not have cherished this one.

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous11:57 pm

    Desmond. It was the crown which just came off.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Hi Desmond,

    Well I'm glad I found your blog .I'm just about to bid on this from seamaster147 on ebay. Looks good to me but I am very inexperienced at this. I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts on this watch:


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371277680433?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    Thanks
    Olly

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quite a tidy handwind Geneve with an original dial.

      Cheres

      Desmond

      Delete
  72. 08-jun-2016
    Other Omega Franken in ebay. By the ebayer alex200373
    http://m.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-OMEGA-CONSTELLATION-PIE-PAN-STEEL-AUTOMATIC-CAL-561-/391476370042?nav=SEARCH

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're absolutely right - it is a franken, because the dial is fake not refinished. Hard to tell if the case middle is or isn't because the pics are dark. Seems to be some chamfer on the lugs and caseback is genuine by the look of it.

      One to run away from, and this seller should, and does, know better!

      Cheers
      Desmond

      Delete
  73. Anonymous4:21 am

    Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/311669341256
    Hello everyone!
    I know you specialize in constellations but i'm a newbie and i could use some help from you. What is your take on this one?
    Thnx in advance!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. An okay Seamaster, in middle of the road condition.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5:19 pm

      Thanks for the feedback, let's hope the price will stay low. This might be my first Ω :)

      Delete
  74. Anonymous2:57 am

    hello, sir. I recently just got an offer from a friend of mine that he want to sell his omega watch. he bought it last year in Japan. after I do some searching about the ref number, I found your blog. can you help to find out about this watch?

    Thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You dont mention the reference number although I assume it is a 14900.

      All the information you need to make comparisons between your watch and known fakes is here on this site.

      Cheers

      Desmond

      Delete
    2. Anonymous11:17 am

      here are the pictures about the watch. the ref number is 14900 61 sc and it shows cal 551. the only difference I can spot is only there are no T words beside the Swiss Made and I don't have any idea if this is fake dial, repaint etc

      http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc480/togjorjess/IMG_0384_zpsfq6kmz4c.jpg

      http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/togjorjess/media/IMG_0389_zpsvczrctk9.jpg.html

      http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/togjorjess/media/IMG_0388_zpsawldc6nw.jpg.html

      http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/togjorjess/media/IMG_0385_zpsegtpcbd8.jpg.html

      http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/togjorjess/media/IMG_0381_zpsssieqmgf.jpg.html

      http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/togjorjess/media/IMG_0379_zps2zkdzsa5.jpg.html

      ----
      sorry if the picture quality is not good

      Delete
    3. Most certainly the dial has been repainted to a low - moderate standard.

      The case is not a fake though. The movement looks correct and his all of its signature chronometer parts. Crown is too big for the watch and fits a 2.5mm crown pipe size and not the 2mm size of a 14900.

      Repainted dials do indeed devalue a watch. From a collecting standpoint, it is better to acquire an example with original factory painted dial.

      Cheers

      Desmond

      Delete
    4. Anonymous7:34 pm

      with this condition is it worth to pay USD 730? since the price is not cheap, I just dont want to make a wrong decision.

      Delete
    5. No, that is way too much for a watch in the condition it is.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous1:07 am

      i'm sorry for the late reply.
      thank you for any advice and answering all my questions, sir.

      cheers

      Delete