Why the dickens would a site dedicated to the veneration of Omega Constellations run a feature on Omega Seamasters?
Well, these are very special Seamaster Chronometres: the rarest of the rare. Until recently, no examples of BA 168.023 had surfaced for more than ten years.
Please click here for a review of these magnificent beauties
Thank you for the information on the Omega Seamaster Golden Chronometres.
ReplyDeleteI have a CD168-023 that was purchased new by my father. Information on this watch has been difficult to find.
Howard
Hi Howard
ReplyDeleteYoure welcome!
If you want me to add a picture of it to the article, please email me.
Regards
Desmond
I ran across your website the other night and it is awesome! The best I've seen for information on identifying fakes. I've just started my interest in collecting vintage watches and was immediately drawn towards the Constellations. You have already saved me big money on fakes I might have otherwise persued. Now when I look at E-bay I am amazed at what appears to be many fake Connies and Seamasters listed and bringing the dollars. Do you know of any websites that cover fake vintage Seamasters in the detail that you provide your readers?
ReplyDeleteKeep up the great work!
Marvin
Hi Marvin
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments
With Seamasters I would start at Chuck Maddox's Seamaster articles at
http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/cm3articles.html#OtherOmega
Hi Mondodes
ReplyDeleteI have cal. 751 CD 168.023, cal.560 KL 6312, Cal. 354 2648, Cal. 504 constellations and many other rares. will send photograph after some times now days I am not in hometown for 1 month on my return will post and share my collection with our community.
Puru
Desmond,
ReplyDeleteThank you for adding the picture of my SM.751 to your excellent article on these superb watches. I am amazed that almost every time I wear it some person who I know is not watch aware comments on what a beautiful watch it is. Although mine is not 18k gold it is nevertheless a special addition to my Omega stable and a pleasure to have and use.
Thank you again for your wonderful blog.
best regards, JohnH.
Hi Desmond,
ReplyDeleteI have a nice Seamaster in Stainless Steel that bought in eBay a little over a year ago, could send you the pictures if you want to add a SS example in as new condition,
Hector
Thanks Hector, happy to include it when I update the essay.
DeleteRegards, and thanks for the offer.
D
Hello, Desmond,
ReplyDeleteI have just acquired an 18k yellow gold Seamaster 751 with leather strap, all in apparently almost NOS condition. I have not yet opened the case, so I cannot provide any serial numbers or even verify that it is a 751, but it came from a reputable dealer. The dial and all the other details check out EXCEPT that it has a non-luminous dial (no T symbol), but it is fitted with Luminous hands which have both a short black inlay and luminous inlay near their ends. I have studied many pictures and everything looks genuine - the dial passes the MOY test etc- but I am not sure about the combination of a non-luminous dial with luminous hands?? The minute hand also just reaches the inner ends of the minute markers, where other examples show that they tended to be a bit shorter - hour hand likewise, But the style of the hands is exactly like all others.
(see ebay Item: 120934792687. I am not the original buyer from this listing, though)
Any comments appreciated
Thanks you.
Hi,
DeleteYes, I've seen this piece before. I think its not bad at all. A couple of things that need to be addressed though.
I think the hands have been replaced because these pieces were either luminous or not, and if luminous then the T marks applied. The other issue I have is the different colours of the day and date rings. The darker colour is original on the day ring, but it looks to me as though the date ring has been replaced.
Overall, very tidy, but just a couple of niggles as mentioned above.
Regards
Desmond
Hello, Desmond,
DeleteThank you for the quick reply. I also had noted the colour varaition between the day and date rings, but after searching through a number of google images, I found others with the same variation: for example: http://www.omega-watches-expert.com/omega-seamaster-day-date.html
However, that's not to say that these haven't been changed either.
My concern is whether this watch could have been created from NOS parts, as I noticed quite a few Omega watches appearing on the bay recently in this "NOS" way - even bought one, and it's perfectly good, if not completely origonal? Although I was informed that the former owner of this particular 751 - a watch collector - had had it for 15 years.
I guess the only way to be sure is to provide the serial numbers or watch to Omega?
Hmm, yes I accessed that page. I still think that to be 'correct' it needs even colouring - most of the examples I've seen over the years are consistently even.
DeleteI dont think it is a NOS make-up, as these cases are made from a solid block of gold and I've never heard of spare cases being around. I think you can be confident of its originality, but it would be worth having an extract anyway to add to its provenance.
Regards
Desmond
Hello Desmond!
ReplyDeleteI have a seamaster 168023 and I don't know what kind of crown was used by the omega factory in this model. My watch has a omega crown but I think that it isn't the original.
Could you help me? Thank you.
Regards!
The crown that fits your 168.023 is 8100/1501Y-8100/3081Y. They are round crowns with a flat end. Still available.
DeleteIf your crown is different to those shown in the essay, then it would not be factory original but an Omega part replacement.
Hi Desmond,
DeleteCould you tell me how I can acquire the appropriate crown for the watch? I was lucky enough to find a pristine ST 168.023 but the crown is unoriginal...
I'd love to share some pictures of the watch too -- she's a beauty.
John you should be able to source a crown from Frei & Borel. Just do a search with the case number and add crown to the search.
DeleteHow about posting some pics on OmegaForums and we'll all have an ogle.
Regards
Desmond
Hi Desmond, I have been reading a bit of your content and really like it, I am also loving the 166.032 / 168.023 Reference and was able to collect 4 of them, one in gold plated and three in blank steel. Three of them have the chronometer kal 751 and one has the kal 752. Could you help me out and tell me what crystal I have to buy for this watches? Maybe the genuine omega model and if possible the diaeter and5 hight etc. Would be very thankful, thanks a lot in advande.
DeleteBest regards Patrick
Hi Patrick,
DeleteThe original parts number for the crystal in the Omega parts book is 5111.
I believe there are generic crystals that also for but a watchmaker would need to size the case up for the correct one.
I would source a local independent watchmaker who has an Omega parts account and go in that direction rather than an Omega service centre.
Regards
Desmond
Thank you very much Desmond!
ReplyDeleteDo you have somepics of the crown? I'm looking for but I don't find it.
Regards!
Yes, just click on the essay which will show various angles of watches with correct crowns.
DeleteHi again!
ReplyDeleteOn the essay I can't see the front and the rear part of the crown. I'm looking for on the omega list of vintage crowns and I don't find the reference.
What do you want to say with flat end? Do you know the diameter of the crown and if it has gasket and tube (diameter)?
I'm sorry. I'm lost.
Regards!
Yes the tube diameter is 2mm.
DeleteI dont have any specific pics of the crown separate, but the watch ref 168.023 should be enough info to order a crown. Frei & Borel have them.
Thank you Desmond!
ReplyDeleteAnother questions. Which is the crown diameter? Does the crown have gasket? What do you want to say with flat end?
Regards!
Yes the crown is a hermetic crown (with built in Gasket). By flat end I really mean non-domed (or bowler hat) end.
DeleteDiameter of original crowns is around 3.95mm
cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond!
ReplyDeleteHave you received my last comments?. Is all right?
Regards!
Hi, yes I've been away on a break.
DeleteTheres isn't a lot more I can add in terms of information.
The best piece of info is the case number as it can be matched to the correct crown then.
Regards
Desmond
Hi Desmond,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your “Rare Golden Seamaster” report. I have read it many times because I have an Omega Seamaster Cal. 751, Case CD 168.023 gold capped on steel that my mother bought for me for my 21st birthday in April 1972. See the original Customs Receipt attached. I wear it daily so it has a few nicks and scratches on the case. It was in for a complete servicing by Swatch(Omega) in October 2003. It keeps good time but does lose aproximately. 1 Minute per day. I need a new strap every two years. I have an automatic winding case to keep it going when I take it off at night. After 10 years the crystal was in very bad condition with very deep scratches and rub marks. It now looks like new after using “never dull” polish wadding on it this year, a tip from http://www.old-omegas.com/ that I can fully recommend.
I do not have any good pictures but I am working on it. My cheap digital camera cannot compare with your very professional pictures. The scans attached were done on a photocopier.
Greetings from the Black Forest
John
PS. Have you seen this one!!:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Solid-18kOMEGA-SEAMSTER-Day-Date-Automatic-Watch-1970s-Cal-751-EXLNT-SERVICED-/261156002657?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3cce1c5b61
Hi John
DeleteI replied to your email but it bounced back saying "mailbox not available"
What an excellent 21st gift and for it to have kept going since 1972 is a testament to how robust these cal 751 movements are. I really like the strap on yours - the ribbing on the edges makes a strong statement.
I still mourn the loss to burglars of my 18k 168.023 given to me when I matriculated (gained university entrance) in 1968 when I was 17, and the later acquisition of another one doesn't lessen the regret :)
I would expect, John, that after nine years from the Omega service the loss of 60 seconds a day is a hint that the movement needs to be dis-assembled, cleaned and oiled. If the lubricants dry or migrate you can get wear. I would be inclined to source a local watchmaker who knows his way around Omegas and get him to give it a service. Some movement parts are now getting scarce and the occasional clean and oil, to me, is good insurance.
Thanks for the tip about 'Never Dull'. I will look around for that as I am always polishing crystals of one watch or another.
And thanks also for sharing your example and the story behind it.
Re ebay 168.023, someone else emailed me about this necause the case back has 166.032 stamped and another number which may indicate a replacement case back. Looks good but the case back markers would need to be verified by Omega to indicate a genuine member of the 1000 Golden Seamasters produced. I think thats why the price is lower than expected.
Regards
Desmond
Hi Desmond.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know if hour markers, hands and omega logo are gold in 18K version.
Regards.
Yes, that is correct
DeleteHi Desmond long time no speak, can you answer me this please I am looking at a beads of rice in 18k good to exlnt condition what are they worth these days?
ReplyDeleteDepending on length and weight of bracelet, around the 4.5k mark methink
ReplyDeleteHi Desmond thank you for the info, I let you know how I go.
DeleteBest Regards
Will
Got it thanks for the info
DeleteWill
Hello Desmond.
ReplyDeleteMy seamaster's gold case back is stamped with the references 166032 and 168023. Is all right? Its cal. is a 751.
How can I know if the dial is gold?
Thank you!
The correct, the two numbers usually appear on the 18k case backs.
DeleteProbably, the only way to tell if your dial is 18k is to ask a watchmaker to check the markings on the back of the dial when the watch is being serviced.
Some of a later batch had the stamp OM near Swiss made which indiucates the dial is 18k.
Cheers
d
Desmond
Hello Desmond.
ReplyDeleteDo you think this omega will increase its value in the future?
Best regards.
Since posting this essay around three years ago, maybe more, I have seen the value of pieces in very good condition appreciate around 30%
DeleteRegards
Desmond
Hi Desmond.
ReplyDeleteI write again. This time is for reporting a seamaster golden "frankenstein" for sale.
Here is the watch: http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/perfekte-vintage-seamaster-dresswatch-einzigartig--id2595374.htm
Wrong hands and caliber. You can see a 752 in the photos.
Seller says pink gold case but the caseback is stainless steel.
Regards.
Yes, I actually think this watch is a 166.032, which is the non-chronometer version powered by a calibre 752 with the same case type. It clearly is a franken and I suspect a genuine 168.023 dial has been installed in order to deceive....by whom I don't know.
DeleteAlso it is claimed the case is pink gold, and by that we generally assume solid pink gold, and yet we both know is is a stainless case capped on the lugs with 14k pink gold.
The price for this piece is outrageous and the seller, Invest-Watch GmbH Friedrichstraße 73033 Göppingen Germany should know better.
The watch in its current state is worth nothing near...maybe 300 USD for the dial and 500.00 for the rest. I would avoid this seller.
Regards
Desmond
HI Desmond,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your wonderful insight of the omegas.
I have just dropped of my late grandfather's 1970 seamaster to get overhauled.
It was give to him at his retirement by the Danish Police department in 1971.
this is what I know-
Serial number 31948xxx (1970)
movement stamped 751
also have both 166 032 and 168 023.
No strap - any suggestions for a new one?
I was quoted min $250 as much $450 - is that reasonable?
Again thank you for a great site.
Sincerely
rene
Hi Rene,
DeleteSounds to me that you have the genuine 168.023. In terms of service, the cost will usually depend on whether parts have to be replaced in the movement and case.
The minimum is fine for dis-assembling, cleaning, oiling and regulating the watch. The maximum should include a new crown, case back gasket and other parts. I would ask the repairer to keep and return all the old parts.
So, generally I think 250 to 540 is not unreasonable, especially since Omega in Bienne would probably charge between 900 - 1100 USD for the same watch.
Regards
Desmond
Thank you for responding so fast. I forgot to mention that it is the gold capped version.
ReplyDeleteThe quote was everything including new original crystal (plastic?) No crown.
Again thank you.
Hi desmond, thanks for such informative articles.
ReplyDeleteI was recently pleasantly surprised by the fact that i owned one of these watches myself (stainless steel)
Do you have any idea how much it would sell for now?
It depends on whether the bracelet is attached and also the condition of the watch. If the finish is intact, and the dial and movement are in good condition, values can be up to 4.5k for the watch head alone.
DeleteBTW that is the 18k version. To gain some idea of the values of stainless styeel it is best to look at completed auctions on internet auction sites
DeleteGood evening everyone, i am one of the lucky owners of this beauty omega seamaster 166.032 day date in 18 k gold, and wanted to ask to Desmond, what would be the actual price for this watches, and how rare are they? as i have been looking in internet and could not find any information regarding how many of this seamasters where produced.
ReplyDeleteThanks in advance
George
Hi George,
DeleteThe rarity of this model is well established and confirmed. My essay goes into further detail. Under 1000 of these pieces were produced.
In respect to valuation, it does depend on condition of dial, case and movement. Generally I think good quality examples wothpout bracelet are worth between 4.5 and 5 k
cheers
Desmond
Thanks for the quick reply, it is in perfect state and if you can give me your email address I could happily send you some photos, also wanted to ask same about stainless steel cased models, are they also rare? and also I have seen same models in 18 gold case but without chronometer, are they original too? what would be the price for this watches?
DeleteThanks in advance
George
Hi George
DeleteStainless steel and gold capped models are not as plentiful as other non-chronometers, but also not rare. Chronometer Seamasters were specialised models more expensive than other Seamasters.
Gold cased models without chronometer certification would be the model 166.032 which denotes non-chronometer. The solid gold case back stamped with both 166.032 and 168.023 was designed to be used for the solid 18k block gold case housing the chronometer and the conventionally made case 166.032 for the non-chronometer.
I would expect a stainless steel example of the 168.023 to be worth in the vicinity of 1200 - 1500 USD
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond, thanks again for quick reply, and all the help, I came across to omega non chronometer version of seamaster in 18k gold case, 166.032. And I am thinking of purchasing. Are they valuable to buy, what would be the actual price for non chronometer versions in 18k gold case?
DeleteThanks again in advance and wish you all the best for the good work and the help you are providing.
George
Price of a Seamaster 166.032 in good condition in 18k would be around gold value plus 300 - 500 USD
ReplyDeleteWhere can I find a good watch repair shop in Los Angeles California area?
ReplyDeleteDalton Toleda comes recommended. Have a look at the list of repairers in the RH column and click on the link
DeleteCheers
Desmond
I will have a seamaster cal 560 soon, my question is:
ReplyDeleteDo I have to wind everyday for it to work or it wind by itself?
Thank you in advance
Cal 560 is an automatic calibre and so if you wear the watch regularly it will power itself without winding.
DeleteD
Hi Desmond, i really need your help with this watch as i could not find any information online, i have this omega cosmic ref 3944 triple dayte moonphase but it has the red numerals, and all the similar watches i found in internet have blue numerals, so could you please help me out, did Omega made this watches with red numerals too,or the dial is not original. for me hands, seconds hand and all the parts look good, but could not find any information regarding red numerals.
ReplyDeleteThanks in advance.
Luca
Hi Luca, there were numerous dial configurations, some with blue numerals and some with red numerals. Ive seen a few 2606s with red numerals, although I haven't seen a 3944 like that.
DeleteBest send me some pics. Click on the About Me on the RH column.
Hi Desmond, thanks for the quick reply and for all the good work you are doing, I sent you the photos of the watch to the email address shown in your profile, I have not seen too any square cosmic models 3944 with red numerals, so will await your opinion.
ReplyDeleteThanks again it is much appreciated.
Regards
Luca
Hi Desmond, thanks a lot for the info, i do appreciate much that you finding the time to reply to all of us, in this condition what do you think would be the value of my cosmic 3944 watch, also is there any place i can find the original dial to buy?
ReplyDeleteRegards
Luca
Very hard to value these pieces Luca particularly with the dial refinished as it is. Perhaps refinishing the dial to the standard in the pic I sent you would make it a better proposition. Dials are no longer available for this model unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteThe bets option would be to do a search of examples that had sold at auction recently. That will give you some idea.
Regards
Desmond
Hi Desmond,
ReplyDeleteI just bought a BA 168.023 Cal.751 (Italian day indication and magnifying loop). I found it at a Swedish watch store, who in turn purchased it in 2015 from a watch maker who serviced it in 2015. It's a real beauty and it's in great condition. Could you guide me in how to best verify its authenticity?
Best regards,
Ruud (Copenhagen, Denmark).
Hi Ruud,
DeleteFeel free to click on 'My Profile' and click through to email.
I'm happy to look at some pics and take you through the authentication process. Pics of dial, inner case back and movement would be good.
Cheers
Desmond
Hey Desmond!
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to have found this post since I recently acquired an SS Cal 751 version. I've noticed in the pictures that some dials say "T Swiss Made T" and others simply say "Swiss Made". Do you have more insights as to why that is?
Cheers,
E
Hi,
DeleteYes, the models with T Swiss Made T have tritium hands and markers, whereas the less common models without the Ts are not luminous.
Regards
Desmond
Thanks for fast reply! Is one rarer than the other?
DeleteYes the non-lumed versions are much less common than the lumed versions.
DeleteCheers
D
Hi Desmond,
ReplyDeleteI love this write up about the Golden Seamaster Chronometres Cal 751. I currently own 3 different models. An SS with a Spanish day indication, gold w/ gold dial and gold w/ white gold (or silver?) dial. I'd love to send you some pictures of these timepiece to get additional insights from you. As I'm a new collector, my knowledge in properly authenticating these kind of watches are limited.
Also, I came across another SS Cal 751 Chronometre Seamaster that had it's dial refinished in black. What are your thoughts on the value of that? In my opinion, I think that would devalue the watch but I don't know enough about monetary values of refinished watches. Would love your feedback.
Cheers,
Erwin
HI Erwin,
DeleteFeel free to post your email address (I wont publish the post) and I'll get in touch with you.
You're right about the refinished Seamaster. To me, a travesty! Made the more so by refinishing a dial in an unoriginal colour. Value amongst the informed collecting community would be reduced by up to 30%, depending on quality of refinishing.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond, thanks again for another wonderful article on these interesting Seamasters.
ReplyDeleteI have a question regardidng your PDF, where it states onix inlay in hour markers.
Never, in several Golden Chronometre Seamastere i've had in my hands for service, or others I've seen on the web, I found onix inlays. Just black painting. And that can be seen easily as many lost its painting or the black is fading in some places.
Many a time I've found onix inlays in hour markers of connies Grand Luxe and the like.
Perhaps, most don't have 18k dials and only de 18k have inlays?
Best, and an excellent 2020 for you,
Álvaro
Hi Alvaro. I think you may be right there about the 18k dials, because under a loupe my 18k looks as though it does, but another dial very much looks painted.
DeleteThanks for picking up that inconsistency. I will amend the essay within the next week and repost it.
Regards
Desmond
CD means basically Coiffe D'Or or "Gold Cap", which denoted a layer of 14K gold rolled over a stainless steel case. The gold is much thicker than ordinary gold plate and is at least 200 microns thick.
ReplyDeleteHope that helps
Cheers
Desmond
I have a BA 168.023; it is for the french market. Regards. Felix
ReplyDeleteHi Felix,
DeleteI don;t see many French examples around. I assume the day letter is in French?
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond
ReplyDeletethe day letters are in french
how can I send pictures, if you like, by email?
Thanks
Felix
Just click on my profile on the RH column and the email is there
DeleteCheers
D