Omega Seamaster Magic!

Fake Omega Seamaster Watch
For those who are interested in how the Ancient Order of Frankenmeisters practice their Evil Magic, view this eBay listing. It’s a true exemplar of the work of a high priest of this subterranean world of playing God with lonely, loose parts looking around for a warm balance cock to make their life complete.
This monster has been listed by eBay seller jjw2838 who, surprisingly, still clings on to 100% feedback (but perhaps not for long). While I am neither suggesting he knows, or doesn’t know, that this watch is an unholy union of different Omega watch models, I am suggesting that someone behind jjw2838’s electronic store front does!
Notice that jjw2838 sells a lot of parts and bitsa Rolexes, and so it can be assumed that parts know their way around him. Perhaps the magnetic fields on some of them are so powerful that they attract each other into fully functioning movements? After all, we are talking “bubble, Bubble, Toil and Trouble” here!

So, which body parts were exhumed to produce this Seamaster abomination? Well, Lets start with the case, which does indeed look like the case shape of a model 165.002, as indicated by the inner case back. So, we can extrapolate that our Frankenmeister first stole into some watch graveyard and dug up a case 165.002.

As any good mortician would do, our Frankenmeister then proceeded to remove all (or most) of case 165.002’s vital organs. We know this, because case 165.002 should have innards upon which are stamped the calibre number 552! (Check the Omega database for the reference 165.0002)

We also know from birth records at Omega that calibre 552 came into this world blind, and, yet, the high priest behind jjw2838’s Seamaster has given it one eye, through which we can view the days of the month!!!! Cross yourselves and smother your bodies with Garlic – QUICKLY!

In looking at the very clean, almost new looking, calibre 562 that now sits in the body of the formerly deceased case 165.002, we notice that the rotor bridge is stamped “Adjusted to five (5) positions and temperature”. Now, some would assume that fully a certified calibre 562 (there were some) was simply removed from its worn out body and placed in 165.002’s lifeless carcass. But, is that really likely?

Could we believe that a Frankmeister would be so stupid as to swap the complete innards from a chronometer graded watch without making sure that the Frankenmonster’s face depicted that a chronometer was beating within? Surely it would be too great a temptation? No, another trip to the graveyard is a more likely scenario, where some newly interred wretch of a chronometer was relieved of its rotor bridge and rotor.

Finally we arrive at the complexion of the dial. One may chance upon slightly swarthy Seamasters of this vintage, but remember these models were produced in grey, dreary Western Switzerland and had a pallor similar to that on blades of grass completely deprived of sunlight. Their faces do not have the rich, dark colour tones of deepest Africa or widows who have retired to Southern Florida. They are decidedly pallid! So, this not-so-smart, but highly competent, Frankenmeister has produced an effect similar to that of putting the head of Robert Mugabe on to the body of Ana Ivanović!

It’s all such a pity really, because the person behind this truly hideous creation could, with the appropriate epiphany, use his not inconsiderable skills in restoring watches as close to the factory specifications as possible. Funny how some people are attracted to the dark side in spite of an easier path, isn’t it?

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27 comments:

  1. Wow Desmond, I havent seen you so loquacious before :)

    An interesting change from your usual blogs and surely an indication of your literary preferences - Do i detect some appreciation for Shelley in your prose? :)

    Interesting reading either way - is there any reaction from Ebay or the seller to your contact?

    Another good article by the way, enjoyed it as usual

    Regards

    Chris

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  2. Shelley eh? That wouldn't happen to be Shelley Schitlipz, one of our local graffitists, would it ?

    Chris, I try to keep my cynicism and ascerbity in check, but, sometimes, I am so stunned by the audacity of some 'purveyors of fine watches' that I can't suppress the bile.

    I believe reports were made about this watch, but with the eBay 'business model' of lip service to open, free but fair marketing, what can we expect?

    Always appreciate your comments.

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  3. What do you think of this seamaster from ebay.
    140341958049

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  4. A reburbishment that is overdone.

    They dont tell you that the dial has been refinished - it has - and the movement appears to have significant corrosion of the beryllium/Copper plating.

    If you missed buying this one, youre lucky :)

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  5. Anonymous4:17 pm

    Dear Desmond,

    I mentioned in an earlier post, where I was seeking help on how to source constellations, that I had recently purchased a 1960s Geneve. Well, reading this now has me a little concerned. Here's my dilemma: My Stainless Steel Geneve is a Seamaster where one must remove the back (which has the sea monster logo), not the crystal and bezel, to access the movement--which didn't bother me because I thought that (and still wonder whether) the Geneve was a type of Seamaster, a "Seamaster Geneve." That is, I thought that in the 1960s there was a confluence between the Seamaster and Geneve models, and that the two lines subsequently split sometime after the 1960s--like the Seamaster and the De Ville.

    My Geneve contains a calibre 565. Omega customer service has told me that my reference number matches a stainless steel Seamaster and that 565 is a correct movement for a 1960s Seamaster. There is a website that attempts to match Omega movements with Omega models. Here, there is a chart that lists the 565 among the movements for vintage Seamasters. But the 565 is not among the movements the chart lists for the Geneve, although whereas the site distinguishes between vintage and non-vintage Seamasters, Geneves are not broken down in this way and are listed under the category "MIscellaneous." What I am wondering is whether the listing on this site for Geneves might or could refer only to later or newer (post-1960s) Geneves, and if my 1960s Geneve would actually fit more appropriately under the site's listing for vintage Seamasters. Ultimately, what I'm afraid of is that I have purchased a stainless steel Seamaster with a Geneve dial. If so, I can still return it if I want to. The jeweler has waranteed the watch and has agreed to be very gracious in matters of unwittingly Frankened watches (this was a consignment item by the way). I do like the watch very much and really don't want to part with it, but I will if it is a Frankened piece.

    Here's the link to the webpage I am talking about--so you can see the categories and lists I'm referring to:

    http://www.chronomaddox.com/OmegaCaliberList.html

    I contacted the person running the site, but I'm having some computer issues right now and may not get his reply.

    If it would help to see pictures of the watch, please let me know.

    Many thanks, and VBW,

    Chris

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  6. Hi Chris

    Yes that site belongs to the late Chuck Maddox. Much of the information is accurate but there are a few mistake.

    Best idea is for you to click on the 'About Me' section of this blog and send me an email perhaps with pics and detailing the case number of your Geneve.

    The case number inside the case back is all-important in determining authenticy.

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  7. Anonymous11:12 pm

    Dear Desmond,

    I am a complete novice, so please forgive this basic question: How do I recognize the case number (is it different from what I have heard referred to as the "reference number"), and on this model would the case back be the removable part with the Seamaster logo? Just wanted to be certain in order that I don't send the wrong information.

    Many thanks and VBW,

    Chris

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  8. Case and ref number are the same Chris for vintage Omegas.

    It can be found on the inside of the caseback.

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  9. Anonymous12:45 am

    I've read your site with interest! Can you give me your thoughts on the authenticity and value of this watch on ebay please?
    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360384328285&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    Thanks

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  10. I'm not very good with women's watches because Ive never taken an interest in them. This one looks legit, but I would be asking the seller for the model number and picture of the movement to confirm it is kosher.

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  11. Anonymous3:55 pm

    hi I am yet another new face here (no pun intended) I am interested in a omega constellation and came across this ad in ebay. After reading your article I am almost convinced that this watch is not what is seems. First I noticed that the crown seems different in that the for lack of better word ridges are much finer on this watch than other pictures of this model I have seen. The other thing that bothers me is the seller has left the selfwinding wheel covering the serial number. any thoughts on this watch are appreciated. For the price of this watch if its not all original is ok as long as its not a hoax attempt.
    thanks for any information ,
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350530763082&_trksid=p2992.m753

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Welcome to the world of collecting. The problem I have with this watch is that it should have calibre 712, and not 710 stamped on the movement. Omega used the ultrathin cal 712 for the Constellation and so at least this watch is a franken.

      I wouldnt go near it.

      Cheers

      Desmond

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  12. Anonymous12:37 pm

    Hi Desmond,
    Was hoping you could cast your expert eye over this watch. Do you think it is an original piece and worth the price? What worries me most is that it is advertised as a de ville but without the appropriate logos. I'm an absolute novice though....
    Regards,
    Alex


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Vintage-Omega-Seamaster-Deville-Gents-Wristwatch-5x-Signed-/261024764236?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item3cc649d14c

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This one looks like an earlier re-dial to me.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous5:12 am

      Hi Desmond,
      I hope you can help me out.
      I want to buy a seamaster vintage watch 1968 (my birthyear)
      I found a jeweler who has a seamaster geneve.
      I can not find a refernence in the omega database of using both names, seamaster and geneve on the dial.
      This is the link: www.juwelierlangeler.nl/horloger/detail/324

      Is this genuine?
      Hope you can help me out.
      John

      Delete
    3. Hi John,

      Its difficult to kn ow what this watch is because they gave not shown a picture of the inner caseback which will have the correct case number against which you can check the database.

      I can tell you, however, that the dial has been refinished for sure. I very much doubt the dial would have had both collection names on the dial as at this stage both collections were well established.

      One tell-tale sign of dial refinishing is that the refinisher broke the cross-hair lines to accomodate the letter. This never happened in an original dial.

      Cheers

      Desmond

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    4. Anonymous6:30 am

      Hi Desmond,
      Thnkx for the reply. I'm in doubt.
      I've seen in the omega database that the crosshair can be open.
      There's no reference of any Seamaster Geneve in het Omega database.
      I dont mind a refinshed dail, but I do mind not logical appelations on the dail.
      Is there any way in checking the authencity of the watch.

      John

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    5. Yes, some of the dials in Omega museum pictures, John, are actually redials. Not all are factory original because OMega had to buy up many models.

      I would ask the seller to advise you of the numbers stamped on the case back. Its most unusual that the movement would be shown without the case back. Once you have those numbers you can check the database.

      Cheers

      Desmond

      Delete
    6. Anonymous11:20 pm

      Hi Desmond,

      Again thnkx.
      I've asked the case number. I thought that in those days movemnet and case had the same number?

      I find it hard to find some referncenumbers in the omegadatabase.
      A seller send me a ref nr 166.022 for a 1966 seamaster, I only can find 166.0022 but thats a Cosmic and looks nothing like the model shown.

      I suppose this is a fraud, or am I looking with the wrong numbers?

      John

      Delete
    7. Hi John,

      No, the serial number of the movement and the case number are separate, but of course provide a way of checking to make sure that the calibre of movement belongs in a specific case.

      You're correct John in assuming that there is an extra zero included on database listings, so if the database says a 166.0022 is a Cosmic and the watch case with the caseback number 166.022 that you are evaluating isn't a Cosmic, then I would be concerned.

      Regards

      Desmond

      Delete
    8. Anonymous2:11 am

      Again thanks for your clear advice.
      I recieved the casenumber from the reseller today I mentioned before.
      The case 166.002 confiirms the watch and cal number. Photo oks like it, except for the dial.
      I can live with a neat redial,
      I would appriciate if you could take a look and compare the both agian. I hope II understand the database now.
      Is there anything else I should be careful about, knowing that maybe the dial is not original?

      I really appriciate your help.

      John

      Delete
    9. Ah, a case 166.002. Now, that makes a difference. Some examples of this case number were Seamasters and some were produced under the Geneve appellation. Whoever redialled this piece has encapsulated this by double branding it.

      The watch itself actually looks very tidy and the calibre 565 movement almost pristine. Case 'lines' are not supersharp but sharp enough. You always have the option in the future to have the dial refinished in the Seamaster only livery.

      Regards

      Desmond

      Delete
    10. Anonymous3:23 am

      Hi Desmond,

      Bought the seamaster. Looks lovely.
      You really helped.
      Thanks agian.

      John

      Delete
    11. Congratulations!

      May you wera her well.

      Cheers
      D

      Delete
  13. Anonymous12:13 am

    Thanks for your response Desmond.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous12:02 am

    Hi Desmond - complete newbie to collecting here. You have an amazing resource. I have recently rekindled my interest in Omegas by having my father's original Seamaster 165.0067 restored. I am looking for a chronometer-graded Seamaster. What do you think of the one listed on http://cgi.ebay.fr/vintage-omega-seamaster-chronometre-automatic-751-swiss-made-man-wrist-watch-/251202951682?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3a7cdcda02? I don't mind a neat repaint on the dial but I am concerned about the accuracy of the redialing, as well as the condition of the rotor/rotor/bridge. Any help would be appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi, and welcome to the world of vintage watch obsessions!

      The watch in question is from a seller with only 7 feedbacks - a bit dicey. Furthermore, the watch is from Mumbai and is over-restored with a very underwhelming restoration job on the movement with a bridge that is not correctly stamped. Notice the contrast between the train bridge (where 751 is stamped) and the rotor bridge and rotor.

      We call these resurrected pieces from India 'Bombay Specials' (no discourtesy meant to Indians, of course) as the entrepreneurs who cobble together these pieces have little regard for factory originality. I would stay well clear.

      A cal 751 Seamaster chronometer is an excellent choice but to get your money's worth one needs to be careful.

      Regards

      Desmond

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