Those sly dogs in the Orient who produce ‘Pinchbeck’ cases (an alloy of zinc and copper used as imitation gold), create fake Constellation dials and fit them with tired old bangers of similar calibre from lower shelf Omega marques are getting slyer!!!
Having been sprung using fake case numbers such as 091919 and 163.001 on their fake gold cases, our intrepid criminals have resorted to no case numbers at all. I have seen a number of these cases surface over the past twelve months, the latest of which may be this listing on eBay by seller executivetime. I say may be, because this case back may have been photographically or physically altered to block out one of the above fake numbers. No matter, the case is fake as clearly demonstrated by the poor rendition of the Helvetia (Lady's head) and the other case stamps. Click here to view this appalling imposter.
Executivetime claims to have been in the watch business for 18 years, and one would think that those behind this enterprise would have had enough experience with Omega models to know that no Omega Constellation was ever powered by a calibre 565. Further, after 18 years in the business one could expect such a seller to be able to determine the difference between a shoddy facsimile of a pie pan dial and the real thing. You would further expect experienced sellers to know about such fakes as part of their stock-in-trade knowledge.
What’s the use of eighteen years experience to buyers if it doesn’t reassure them about a seller's product knowledge on the watches they sell and ability to tell the difference between the genuine article and a series of Chinese confections that are well known in the industry to be fakes?? It makes one think that the seller has had, in reality, only one year’s experience and simply repeated that one year's experience 18 times!
This listing underpins the plain fact that on eBay 100 percent feedback means little and 18 years experience means even less. This listing ended with the fake Constellation having attracted a maximum bid of $1705.00. We can only hope that executivetime acknowledges that it has sold a fake and makes a full refund to the winning bidder.
The lesson of this story is do not EVER buy a gold Omega that doesn’t have a verifiable case number stamped on the inner case back. For a comprehensive essay on real and fake gold Omega Constellations click here
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Yeah, I just had to send that one over to you, Desmond. I guess you can call it a Fakenwatch...combination of a fake and Frankenwatch.
ReplyDeleteAanother distressing fact is that the seller emphasizes his membership in the NAWCC.
Things like this are one of the reasons I have yet to join that organization and don't plan to in the near future.
Keep up the great work!
gatorcpa
Thanks Gator for the flag on this one.
ReplyDeleteI let my NAWCC membership lapse, although I wish them the best. I only ever heard of the organisation throwing out one member and that was a well known eBay seller who diddled colleagues too close to home.
I guess one of the problems in policing suspect members is that on eBay anonymity is guaranteed and its hard to get beyond that wall.
Cheers
Desmond
What difference does it make if its an original case or replica as long as it is made with real gold?
ReplyDeleteThe feeling is only in your mind,not your wrist.
You obviously didnt get the point - the case is made from Pinchbeck, an alloy of zinc and copper....it ISNT real gold.
ReplyDeleteTo ask the question "What difference does it make" suggests a need to bone up on case construction. These cases are poorly made and deliberately designed to mislead.
One thinks before one feels, thankfully, and it is in the endeavour of human thought that certain concepts about originality and design of vintage objects have gained real currency.
If you wish to think with your wrist, who am I to discourage you :)
They just keep getting better as the technology improves. It is rather sickening to be honest. Homage is one thing, but to pass something off that is not is bothersome. Thank you for the info, another reminder of what is lurking out there.
ReplyDeleteYou're right - with today's machinery these things can be turned out in a back shed.
ReplyDeleteSame thing is happening with Rolex vintage where old Rolex movements are being slotted into fakes of highly collectible vintage models.
Thanks for your comments
Cheers
desmond
So if Pie Pan is not made with calibre 565 this gotta be fake ?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tradera.com/Omega-Constellation-Pie-pan-Dat-Bubble-Back-Guld-Stal--auktion_190118_114634880#pic
Robin
Robin
ReplyDeleteThe date Constellations of that era will be calibre 561, 564 and day-date 751.
A calibre 565 in a non-Constellation calibre.
Cheers
Desmond
Dear Desmond
ReplyDeleteI am the rookie that bought the fake 18K Constellation Pie Pan that is on you site (eBay item #320530628370). I was helped by one of your readers, Jim, who very kindly directed me to your site. As I read through your article, a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach grew as the realisation that I had just paid $1700 for a fake sunk in.
Once the embarrassment of having being duped subsided I tried to salvage the situation. I contacted the seller and opened a case in eBay's Resolution Centre requesting a refund on grounds that the item was not as described and was likely to be counterfeit. eBay contacted the seller(Executivetime) who refunded me in full immediately.
The high volume "power sellers" need eBay and are aware that a bad reputation or worse losing their eligibility to trade on eBay could have a hugely negative impact on their trading. A number of these traders are pawnbrokers or the like, and are probably not expert in vintage watches and may or may not recognise a fake when one passes through their hands, although, they are usually pretty canny people and can probably recognise fake gold when they see it!
The smaller traders may not play by eBay’s rules and just close down, disappear and reappear as some else later on.
In the recent past EBay has come under a lot of pressure from luxury good manufacturers to curb the sale of counterfeit goods such as perfume, cosmetics etc and to take action against the counterfeiters and in my case it was very helpful.
I find your site fascinating, entertaining and very informative and would echo previous comments of, keep up the good work, and watch over us “newbies”. I’ll try and take your advice to not be put off collecting, but I’m still in the, once bitten twice shy, stage.
Thanks again I appreciate what you and the good Samaritan, Jim, did for me.
Yours sincerely
Phil
PS I think the Resolution Centre option will time out and it is important to make a decision about a watch and plan to return it within 30-60 days.
Hi Phil.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, thanks for sharing your story.
Secondly, I am absolutely delighted that you were able to raise the issue through eBay dispute resolution and get your money back. This item had been flagged with eBay as fake but they let the auction run and so it's gratifying to see that prompt action was taken when you opened the dispute.
More power to the elbow of Jim - for assisting you in first instance.
I am glad this this site played a small role, because that's what it's is here for.
These fakes are a blight on the collecting landscape and they have fooled some very clever people, including so-called experts at Antiquorum. So please don't be down on yourself for being the victim of clever fakery.....and yes, please don't let it dissuade you from the pleasure of owning a genuine vintage Constellation.
When you're ready, email me, and I will assist you in choosing the real McCoy.
Best wishes
Desmond
Hi, I just discovered this excellent site a few days ago and was reading about the fake Constellations. I am a complete novice regarding fine watches, and just started recently to purchase a few lower-end Swiss mechanicals. Anyway, I just ran across this Constellation on eBay and thought it had all the telltale signs of a fake:
ReplyDeletehttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260644854385
Am I correct?
Thanks,
Dave
Hi Dave
ReplyDeletethanks for your comments
The ebay watch isnt fake, but it has a very poorly executed redial. The case is very worn. The movement appears correct for a 167.005.
Cheers
Desmond
Thank you Desmond for for your quick response. I don't want to take up any more of your time, but when you say redial, does that mean the dial has been restored or in this case, poorly restored?
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Dave
Yes, correct Dave, the dial no longer has its original finish and has been refinished - quite badly.
ReplyDeleteOriginal dials are always preferable because, overall, originality adds to collectability and sustains better value over time
Cheers
Desmond
Desmond,
ReplyDeleteExcellent site and great watchdog work! I've stumbled upon in the past with some of your articles while googling info and I've found them all very enlightning.
Keep up the good work. I'm a total newbie in vintage watches, just own a cal 354 bumper Seamaster, but your advice and expertise are truly enlighting. If I ever hunt down a Connie, I know where to start.
Desmond,
ReplyDeleteExcellent site and great watchdog work!
I've stumbled upon your aticles googling information and I've found them all to be very entertaining and enlightning.
I'm a total newbie in vintage watches, just own a cal 354 bumper Seamaster, but if I ever hunt down a Connie I know where to start.
Desmond, this is off topic here, so you probably won’t want to include this as a response to this particular article. I tried to just send an email to you but it didn’t go through. I want to thank you for including the link to TimeZone’s Advice for Vintage Watch Collector. It was immensely helpful as I read every posting including yours. Learning the ropes is all about starting from a solid overview, including the de facto specifics and on into the realm of psychological motivations. Thanks again for including this link.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Dave
Thanks Pietron for your kind comments.
ReplyDeleteHappy that you have got some value out of my acting out my obsession :)
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Dave
ReplyDeleteStrange, as that is the email. Some others have had the same problem and I cant work it out.
Hehe, yes I think to be a successful collector one must not only know a lot about their subject but also be introspective enough to be able to nail their motivations :)
Cheers
desmond