Crowns along with crystals and gaskets are probably the most frequently replaced parts of a watch, and so many of the crowns on the end of the stems of today's vintage watches are not the original factory fitted parts, which is why we see so many variations on Omega Constellations.
This has given rise to an ongoing discussion about 'correct' crowns for various models. While collectors are generally not too fussed about factory original crowns, there is a preference to have their pieces as close to factory specifications as possible.
Occasionally a debate stirs up over whether the decagonal crown is the standard for all Omega Constellation watches that fall within the first two design phases of the collection. I believe it is.
Hi Desmond,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the very helpful essay about constellation crowns. I hope to make my connie soon happy with te right crown.
Regards, Edwin
Youre welcome!
ReplyDeleteGood luck in your search.
Regards
Desmond
Well I’d have to disagree and I don’t think you’ve shown anything with the advertisements. I’ve found that the majority of higher end constellations, with the exception of some U.S versions, have the ten sided crowns, while most of the standard models have a mix of the two. Since Omega generally used only top of the line models in their ads you’ve proven nothing about the majority of Constellations. Of your 8 examples only two are indicative of how the majority of watches would have been outfitted, and those split the difference. Furthermore to call the ten sided “the correct crown” when others were known to exist is down right irresponsible since you have no definitive proof of production numbers, only poorly drawn conjectures based of scant and flawed evidence.
ReplyDeleteA little harsh, don't you think David?
ReplyDeleteI used only eight ads as examples, eight out of probably 40 plus ads I have collected over three decades of collecting Omega Constellations.
I agree: the majority of high end Connies appear to have decagonal crowns, with some exceptions. I disagree that Omega only used top of the line Connies in their ads. I have quite a number of examples of stainless and gold cap ads and catalogues that show non high-end Connies with decagonal crowns and Ive only really been able to find two ads of middle end Connies that dont, and then there's Steve Waddington's collection of catalogues.
I repeat what I said in the essay "The ten-sider in an overwhelming number of instances appears in Omega advertising of the period, both in European and
American spreads". I guess I could post every ad I have to make the point. You however have produced no evidence to the contrary in your response and yet you choose to call my conclusions irresponsible? Show me evidence where, but in a few cases, Omega produced ads of watches that DIDNT have decagonal crowns.
I repeat the comment on page one in respect to the rhetorical question posed, "The answer to that question is that decagonal crowns were the standard on every occasion that they were! And that was more often than not."
As I concluded in my essay "While there were undoubtedly a few Omega advertisements that showed Constellations fitted with crowns
that were more closely associated with Seamasters of the period, the vast weight of source material indicates that the standard for classic Constellations of the Fifties and Sixties was the decagonal crown. That is to say
that the ‘correct’ crown for these models was a ten-sided crown."
Note that I used the expression 'correct' and not "correct" in the latter para.
I have not scanned my Omega parts manuals or used them in the essay, but, for the quite incomplete set I have there is a pattern that suggests the decagonal crown.
My definition of standard is along the lines of "a reference point against which other things can be evaluated". In using the word standard in my last para, I believe that the reference point is indeed the decagonal crown. Demonstrate any other conclusion with as much eveidence that proves the contrary and I will happily recant.
Your essay is again a significant source material regarding connie crowns. I extend my thanks and the information would enable me to search for the right crown for the connies in my collection. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome!
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for taking the time to post your support
Regards
Desmond
We all should be so fortunate to have a man, Desmond, who gives time and effort, so all of us Omega fans can learn more about the watches we love.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice, if all of you "Experts" would furnish him any additional information that you may have or know in Polite way.
Ted In Indy USA
I take it that the essay could be best summed up as this: Decagonal crowns were the "standard" for the early Constellation line, but not the "absolute" crown used. There WERE variations used occassionaly, mostly the same period "standard" Seamaster crown.
ReplyDeleteThat's it in a nutshell.
DeleteI would add that there is a certain collecting preference for decagonals and that all calibre 354 models had the large decagonal crown.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond.
ReplyDeleteEven at risk of going sideways, I will ask you
about the general Omega crowns with logo...
when do they appear? did the '40s RGs had already logo in their crowns?
Thanks a lot,
a splendid and very useful site
About the same time as the new numbering system Al.
DeleteAround 1948/49 I understand, hence we see earlier 30T2 without logo, but late 40s models with logo.
Regards
Desmond
Hi Desmond,
DeleteWhat about the calibre 551 and 561? Do they all also have the decagonal crowns?
Thanks!
Dan
Gneerally speaking, yes they do Dan.
DeleteSo Desmond, should a 14393 9 sc have a ten sided crown, and which of the two variants is it ? Bearing in mind the one ad u had showing " seamaster type" crown is a 14393 ..lol. Would like mine to be as correct as possible..... I purchased the watch with the same crown as per your ad......thanks. Grant.
ReplyDeleteTheoretically the design book has the 14393 with a 2.00 mm pipe size crown. Some ads particularly for 18k models have shown the clover leaf, and some US ads for stainless 14393s had a flatter crown.
ReplyDeleteSo, I tend towards the view that because decagonal crowns are part of the established design story of these models, they are more desirable than other crowns that occasionally cropped up in ads.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi Desmond. I have a gold capped 1493 61 sc. does it come with clover leaf crown or ten sided one?
DeleteAs per my comments above and below, I would argue that the parts manuals and design book of the time specified 2mm pipe-sized decagonal crowns.
DeleteThat is not to say that human frailty or preference did not intervene at times. Some national agencies fitted other crowns either for aesthetic preferences, or in the case of the thin decagonal crowns for cal 551/561, ease of winding. Old fingers found it hard to wind their Omegas with the new second gen. crown.
Today, the decagon remains the preffered crown.
Cheers
Desmond
But
Than you Desmond...I will take the chance to tell you that we admire the knowledge that you collected over the years and the excellent professional presentation of the informations like a university professor.
Deleteregards :)
Well, I try :)
DeleteHi Desmond
ReplyDeletewhat about the 2852 gold? I purchased an exemplar with a clover leaf crown but not really shure is the right one...
thanks. Freddy
Clover leaf examples were sold, but the design story for Constellation would suggest a ten-sided crown. So it's really up to you and your preferences.
ReplyDeleteRegards
Desmond
Had a 42019 decagonal crown fitted to my 1952 Constellation 18ct bumper yesterday - £65 including fitting. Enhances the watch no end. Thank you for your wonderful (and extensive) Omega commentaries Desmond!
ReplyDeleteExcellent. I agree, the decagonal shows off the case more strikingly.
DeleteCheers
desmond
Hi i am not a collector but my crown is not the right one and my watch needs some service. I do not want to pay a fortune but do you know where i could get all this done. Manchester.
ReplyDeleteI don;t specifically know of a recommended repairer in Manchester, however there are a couple of English repairers recommended in the RH column under "Recommended Repairers"
DeleteI'm sure there would be someone in Manchester who could do the job. Avoid jewellers and search for watchmakers that claim to know about Omega servicing.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi,
ReplyDeletethank you Desmond for this enormously useful article!
I have a KO 2943 Connie with a replaced crown and I wish it could be replaced with a decagonal one. As far as I understood the #4219 is the original one to this model, am I right? If so, I will try to get one somehow. However, in case it's impossible, would also a #4204 fit to this model? If there's no way to get either, the currently officially available BF1664 would be the right choice, am I right? Since when this BF1664 has been produced?
Sorry for the many questions, but I would really appreciate any help, please let me know if I misinterpreted any part.
Bests,
David
Hi David,
DeleteYes the 4219 would be correct, and has a crown pipe size of 2.5 mm. The 4204 doesn't fit as it has a pipe size of 2.00 mm
BF is the initials for Bestfit, a US parts operation that manufactured "homage" parts so to speak.
I believe the 4219 is still available through watchmakers who have an Omega parts account, but the smaller 2 mm pipe sized crown has long been discontinued.
Hope that assists.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteInteresting discussion.
I have an old Omega Constellation I would like to refurbish. It was bought in 1964 and it is missing its crown. It has the 551 caliber, serial number 19348406 and case number 14900 62 sc. Could you please tell from where I could source the proper crown for this watch? What is the correct crown for this watch? I am assuming I will have to replace the stem as well so if you could also please let me know where and how I could find the proper stem as well.
Thank you.
the original crown would have been decagonal to meet the standard, however they have long been discontinued. The serial number dates production of the movement to earlier in 1962, and was probably cased in that year. It isn't uncommon for there to be several years between production and sale.
DeleteOfrei.com offers a generic crown that fits your model. Code is: 8100/1664W. If the crown stem is still in the watch it may be be fine. If not a search of OFrei may reveal one.
Cheers
Desmond
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI've just purchased a 1961/62 18k Gold Constellation as a dress watch although it has the Seamaster 12 sided crown It was interesting to see the American advert with the Seamaster crown. It also has the two line identification not the three which I've read did happen for a while. Im going to send away for a copy of the original papers from Omega to see were it was originally sold. What is your opinion?
Hi Jonathon
DeleteNot sure if a 12-sided crown is specifically Seamaster, but especially in the US there seems to be an array of crowns attached to various Constellation models, perhaps reflecting the idiosyncrasies of the American agent. The two lined uppercase lettering is generally correct for the period you mentioned.
If the watch is a keeper, it's an added bonus to have an extract from the archives.
Congratulations on your purchase!
Cheers
Desmond
Dear Desmond,
ReplyDeleteLink to the document doesn't work anymore.
Is it possible to sahre again?
Thanks
Cheers
Xavier
Hmm strange. I have refreshed the link
DeleteCheers
Desmond