As Constellation watches become increasingly collectible and the availability of quality examples begins to shrink, pay particular attention to anything that looks half good. Chances are it IS only half good. Below is a sample :

Item Number

160208526485 - Sold by ecosse_watches - Total Fake: You wont be able to see this listing now as it has mysteriously been removed, but I hope soon to put up some pictures of it.

Of course this was a 'private' auction, because that way no-one can warn off the buyer as to the status of the dud watch offered.

The name of this seller is Colin Gillies, 37 James Murdie Gardens, Hamilton, South Lanarkshire ML3 0RT in the UK.

I emailed this seller (ecosse_watches) via the eBay system and not his email address at colin_gillies@btopenworld.com and advised him that calibre 562 as presented in his pictures was not a Constellation calibre. I also advised him that the case and dial were fake and suggested he read my post on these fake Connies.

Gillies in an email to the seller is now refusing to deal further In a perfect piece of dissembling he tried to throw the buyer off the scent by suggesting that, and I quote, "I think he was the guy who told me he didn't like the look of it but then wanted me to end the auction and sell it to him privately!"

Of course Colin cannot produce an email from me making any such offer, but he does have one sent to him through the ebay system that warns him the watch is a fake. I will produce a scan of this correspondence and other Gilles gems when we devote an entire post to him, so the ten thousand people who access these pages every month can make up their own minds about the bona fides of said Colin Gilles.

The watch fetched around USD 2361, and now we have another poor chump who has been sold a lemon.

The lesson....never bid on any item offered by ecosse-watches or deal with Colin Gillies

330211711609 - Fake case and dial
230223747333 - Franken with a wierd dial
140207784292 - Franken Seamaster turned into a Connie
200200143784 - Claims original dial: It isnt, its a badly refinished one
270212563730 - Convince me that this dial didnt come out of a solid rose gold or capped 504. The rare black dialled models usually had the same case metal colour as the markers and
in a different case number. But, there could be exceptions.

270212617228 - Franken in a Seamaster case
320217384196 - Franken


This is just a random sample. Enough reason for research and care before you take the plunge eh?

10 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:31 pm

    Desmond,
    Another grea article for those of us on "P" plates.
    I amm seeing more and more of the 26... and 27... appearing with the crown as seen in auction 1402077864292 and 270207784292.
    Was this crown issued on ANY Constellations or was it only on the Seamaster.
    Thanks
    Ward

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi Ward, Thanks for you kind comments. These four-trench crowns are exclusively Seamaster.

    Ten-sded crowns are the standard for Constellation, excpeting 168.009/17 C-Shape and 168.004 (that is in the 300 - 501 - 505 - 551 - 564 standard cases) Things changed after that but the crowns were your standard type in the later models.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous1:44 pm

    Desmond,
    Thank you for verify this issue and confirming what I had expected was the case, that these were replacement crowns.
    I recently purchased a copy of OMEGA A JOURNEY THROUGH TIME and when i was reading through the Constellation section last night I noticed an interesting colour advertiement on page 366 which adds a little intrigue to our discussion.
    Regards
    Ward

    ReplyDelete
  4. Yes, I saw that pic Ward and wondered about that.

    I wasnt sure if it was a high quality drawing or a pic...looks like a 561 calibre 561.

    I'm wondering if it was just an aberration. Most of the other Grand Luxes Ive seen have had the ten-sider.

    Regards

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous4:08 am

    Hi,
    Great blog. Thanks for all your hard work. I've been a big fan of these watches for about 10 years and have noticed a serious decline in the quality of the offerings in the past few years. I hope your work here will help stem the tide.

    I'm curious about your assessment of "160208526485 - Total Fake". There are definately some things that look off to me, like the TT on a non luminous dial. I'm not sure whether a combination of large pyramid markers, calender, and 60's style case was ever offered, but it seems dubious.

    However you refer to it as a fake rather than a franken, which I take to mean complete fake. You specifically mention that the case is fake with negligible gold content. On what do you base that assessment?

    I'm curious what your opinion might be on the source of fake components. Do you think this is something that has been going with connies for a long time or is it a fairly recent thing. I know that Rolex watches have been cloned for decades, but I never thought connies had enough profit margin to justify someone making clones that were good enough to pass off as real. I'm wondering at this point whether it's even possible to find good ones.
    Eric

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous4:11 am

    Hi,
    Great blog. Thanks for all your hard work. I've been a big fan of these watches for about 10 years and have noticed a serious decline in the quality of the offerings in the past few years. I hope this will help stem the tide.

    I'm curious about your assessment of "160208526485 - Total Fake". There are definately some things that look off to me, like the TT on a non luminous dial. I'm not sure whether a combination of large pyramid markers, calender, and 60's style case was ever offered, but it seems dubious.

    However you refer to it as a fake rather than a franken, which I take to mean complete fake. You specifically mention that the case is fake with negligible gold content. On what do you base that assessment?

    I'm curious what your opinion might be on the source of fake components. Do you think this is something that has been going with connies for a long time or is it a fairly recent thing. I know that Rolex watches have been cloned for decades, but I never thought connies had enough profit margin to practically make clones that were good enough to pass off as real. I'm wondering at this point whether it's even possible to find good ones.
    Eric

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi ERic,

    Thanks for you thoughtful comments.

    Have a look at the post on gold Constellations as there is a photo-essay of fakes and also an explanation of what makes them so.

    http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2007/09/everything-thats-gold-doesnt.html

    Youre absolutely right about a decline in both the condition and integrity of offerings, particularly over the last couple of years.

    Re 'Total Fake' I learned some time ago that these cases were being made in Vietnam and China. There is a number of them but 091919 and some 163xxx cases are the most common.

    Calling theses fakes instead of Frankens is due to the case and dial being fake and the movement being a franken and incorrect calibre.

    The bandit that sold the watch in question made a tidy profit. Buy the cases and dials for next to nothing, get hold of any Omega movement, and bang, make yourself a couple of thou!

    I have assisted several 'victims' of this scam get their money back, and as part of their evidence procedure had the cases tested.

    Regards

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi there
    I am afraid to say that it was my brother in law who asked me to bid on this watch on ebay, and he won it as a gift for his father. Today I received an email from another ebayer who referred me to your blog. Also my father in law has informed me that the watch is not in fact working. I know nothing about watches and was only asked to bid on it, but now obviously my brother in law wants a refund. We have the seller's address, email and phone number, but what do you suggest is the best course of action? Would you be able to help us at all? Should we contact the police?
    Many thanks
    Melanie

    ReplyDelete
  9. Mels, you dont indicate which watch you won on eBay.

    Send me the listing number to mondodec@tpg.com.au.

    Did you pay by credit card or paypal? If so you have some redress.

    I would immediately lodge a claim detailing what is wrong with the watch. If it is a franken then any of the watches that I mentioned in that post indicate misleading advertising to say the least.

    I am travelling at the moment so it may be a day or two before I can reply to your email.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous10:19 pm

    Hi again
    For some reason the google blogger username I set up isn't working. Anyways...
    We paid cash on collection unfortunately. Paypal was not given as an option. The item number was 160208526485. The ebay site says you cannot lodge a claim until at least 10 days after the auction ended.
    Thanks
    Mel

    ReplyDelete