Fake Omega Constellations Surface Again



Even some of the better eBay sellers, so it seems, cannot be relied upon to offer only genuine Omega Constellations for sale.  (1) Link to this eBay listing by Californian seller jjw2838 and (2) download this essay on fake Omega dials and cases, and begin to make some comparisons.  A cursory exercise in contrastive analysis will reveal to you that jjw2838 is offering a home to a poor, forlorn calibre 561 in a fake case and giving it a Constellation personality with a fake dial!!!!

 It challenges my sense of credulity that a seller who has serviced and sold many, many Omega Constellations over the years cannot be aware of these Chinese/Vietnamese fake case and dial ensembles. It further stretches belief that jjw2838 is not aware that a calibre 561 should not be housed in a case (fake though it is) stamped with the model number 167.005, for it is common knowledge that calibre 551 Constellations were awarded this case number.  And, surely, a perfunctory examination of the dial and dial underside should, for any experienced watch mechanic, raise serious questions about the dial. 

Given the above facts, I will leave you to make a conclusion about the seller’s intentions, save to say that these fake dial and case ensembles have been sullying online and geographical vintage watch markets for more than five years.

Every now and then, this seller seems to go off the rails and compromise his reputation by offering suspect or franken watches on eBay. For another example click here

Some of the more sagacious vintage watch collectors proclaim that one must “buy the seller and not the watch”, but I would suggest that this statement reflects a pre-internet value system that has little relevance in today’s global markets.  Yes, one must evaluate a seller to ensure that s/he is not a linear descendant of a horse thief, but then, one must examine closely the watch for sale to ensure that it is genuine and that it meets factory standards.   In a global market, the phrase, “a seller, no matter who, is only as good as the watch s/he is selling now” would appear to be a much better principle by which to abide. 

42 comments:

  1. unico1:46 am

    a very good observation. it just makes me sad that this seller is auctioning this fake cased watch. i bought from him before a c model.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Yes, I absolutely agree. He has sold in the past some very nice pieces. I particularly like the way he shows pics of the disassembled pieces.

    Cheers
    Desmond

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  3. I just find this watch on eBay item #320704684754 I save and am wanting to place a bid, I am not sure this is a real watch's case and dial, please help!

    Thanks

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  4. gatorcpa1:08 am

    Sometimes one has to buy both the watch and the seller.

    Unfortunately, some sellers refuse to admit that they were taken in on a poor purchase and are intent on seller a fake piece at the risk of their reputation, rather than simply taking a loss for lack of judgement.

    We are all losers when that happens,

    gatorcpa

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  5. Agree that everyone loses Gator.

    The world isn't big enough any more to imagine that the odd indiscretion or deception won't get noticed.

    CHEERS
    Desmond

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  6. Anonymous7:16 am

    Thanks for the write up.
    Well, here I am, a newbie trying to get into the vintage Omega watch world and now I am affraid that I am going to get a fake.

    I live around Los Angeles and I am trying to find a reputable vintage Omega watch dealer around here. I just came back from a dealer who posted this watch on ebay
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170643674920&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    The person I talked to was very nice and he answered all my questions, but still, I do not know much about it and am affraid to buy a watch that I don't know.
    I am already a member in watchuseek and will continue to read posts before I make the move.
    I am interested in the 1950' 60' Seamaster and Constellation.
    Thanks again.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Good idea to start off buying locally so you can examine the watch and establish a relationship with the seller.

    The Seamaster in question looks nice and tidy, but I would expect a 1966 Seamaster to have the new style of Seamaster lettering, because the double-coathanger S lettering was phasing out by late 1962.

    So we may have a refinished dial, which, in itself, is not a problem if the seller declared that the dial is refinished and you are happy to settle for a refinished dial.

    Also, the seller does not mention the case number, so it makes it difficult for you to check that case number and calibre match on the Omega vintage database. http://62.73.172.167/cu_vintage/index.php

    As a newcomer, it's understandable that you may get a bit jittery about buying on eBay. The secret is not to rush in but keep looking and learning so as to ultimately make up your mind which specific models take your fancy.

    Then, study up on those models so you can make an informed choice, ask questions on the forums, decide whether you would be satisfied with refurbished (including redialled) watches or whether you're going to be a stickler for factory originality.

    Look at the completed auctions on eBay so you can get a handle on prices.

    If you're interested in Connies, there's plenty of info on this site to help you build your knowledge, and there are good seamaster experts on watchuseek, timezone vintage, and puristpro.

    Good luck and welcome to the world of vintage collecting!

    Cheers

    desmond

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  8. Anonymous5:43 am

    Thanks for replying my comment, Desmond.
    I have already signed up here
    http://62.73.172.167/cu_vintage/index.php , but I am not sure what I could do there. For example, I have entered the watch's information and left the search full text blank, and the search came back blank. I've tried to put something in the text search, but the results were always blank. I wonder if I am doing anything wrong.
    The watch's information that I got is in this listing.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270754695053&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    I have also tried searching this one,
    http://cgi.ebay.com/1956-OMEGA-VINTAGE-CONSTELLATION-AUTOMATIC-SS-STEEL-/280685279494?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item415a257906

    again, I am not sure what I am searching for. If would be great if you could help and point me to the right direction. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous5:24 am

    I cant believe it! I am the sucker who bought this watch. It just arrived today. I should have done more homework....Think jjw2838 will give me a refund?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Youre not a sucker, because what we're talking about here is, on the surface, a very well designed fake case and dial.

    I think the vendor will refund your money, as I dont think he's a crook. I would open a dispute with paypal/eBay and take it from there. Good luck.

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  11. Good idea when using the omega database is to start with the calibre number. That throws up a whole lot of models.

    Or the case number only. Eg 168.005. Sometimes you may need to put an extra zero after the first three digits of a case number.

    Cheers

    desmond

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  12. Anonymous6:26 am

    Hello Mondodes! I am a person who love to collect Omega vintage watches. I have just look jjw2838's watch, the dial have actual described has refinished, the rest of the watch look genuine for me. You right, the only different is 167.005 with caliber 551. I believe the case is not fake. I have seen many of this type of dial on eBay, I am interest to find out and search in your blog to find more like this type of watches. Do you put more fake Omega watches on your blog or other site? I am very interesting to see you post more fake watches on this blog. Thank your for your information.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi, Yes the seller said the dial was refinished, but, in actual fact, it is a fake dial that has the dial 'furniture' glued as opposed to rivetted.

    It is the wrong case, for sure, as it should be 168.005. However I am convinced case body is fake too. There should be a chamfer underneath the bezel and a further chamfer on the case body that gives a 'V' effect. Even though the case is highly polished, it does not have the double chamfer below the bezel. This is a tell-tale indicator that the case is not an OMega commissioned model.

    Thanks for much for your post,

    Regards

    Desmond

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  14. Anonymous3:25 am

    Hi there! I have been your reader quite long time and am just want you be fair to our US Citizens. At this point I must say something. I am also a eBay buyer and am review all Omega watches every day, I have seen so many fake watch cases and dials I haven't seen you have post them on your blog. First, I want you to tell the readers are you a watch marker or a eBay seller? I agree with you said is wrong case but I am not agree fake case as you said. 167.005 and 168.005 will fit date movement or without. Actually, 167.005 come with caliber 551 without date, people just throw a date movement on to this case which is caliber 561 with date, all parts and movement are authentic. As my experiencing many vintage Omega watches have been hand over many buyers and sellers or collectors, a "v" or no "v" it could be cause polishing. You did not answer my last question you have post other fake watches on your block or not. Here I give you couple watches with similar dial, eBay item #190531602338, #320704684754. What do you think on these watch case? Hope to see you post and say something on your blog. As you said and post: http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2009/01/dont-buy-14900-168005-or-167005-omega.html. "You tell us don't buy them, there are no expert" So how do you justify 100% fake case? I am thinking are you just want to poison to one of our US Citizens. I will re-evaluate your posts and a well expert??? For my opinion I am guessing you are more look like a eBay seller??? I will forward your blog to the above seller.

    ReplyDelete
  15. You are welcome to believe that the case is genuine, and I will assert the opposite, with the caveat that I have not handled the watch and have only seen pictures of it.

    There are some parts of your post that I dont understand because of English not being your first language, however I did understand your contention that I am an ebay seller. The answer is no, I have never been an eBay seller.

    Secondly as to your question about posts on this blog about fake watches, I suggest that instead of making wild accusations about me "just want to poison to one of our US Citizens", you read through the blog. The idea that I'm anti-US is an haluccination in your mind and bordering on stupid.

    I am happy for you to forward the URL to whomever you want. The seller in this instance I am told has offered a full refund.

    ReplyDelete
  16. ey

    long story how i came accross your profile but doesnt really matter haha

    i have a question for you

    i am a 21 year old student and i believe i have found a 1960 Omega Constellation 561 with original bracelet on the floor on my way home from school

    i went to an omega retailer and they said its real to 99 per cent.

    since i am 21 i dont want to keep this watch i want to sell it.

    what do u think would be the best way to approach this

    thank you in advance

    lars

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  17. Hi Lars

    Click on the 'about me' section on the rh column and then click on the email function.

    You'll need to send me some pics to be able to recommend the best means of selling the watch

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  18. Hey Mr. Mondodes! You don't know watch's movement nor watchmaker? Say something about these two ebay items that above reader ask? (#190531602338, #320704684754)

    ReplyDelete
  19. I suspect Chau that several of the anonymous posts and indeed yours are from jjw2838

    The reason why I commented on your listing (if indeed it was) was that it was reported to me by several avid eBay users.

    The watches you mention are clearly suspect, and as you may have noticed, I use particular listings to point out what is happening in the fake/franken sector of the market.

    I could use up many pages of my blog just listing all the fake/frankens on ebay, but that is not the primary purpose of this blog.

    But, from time to time, I will pick an example and write about it. In your case, if you are jjw2838, it is an absolute mystery to me why you would knowingly attempt to compromise your repupation by selling a franken fake, particularly when you have sold so many genuine pieces

    Cheers

    desmond

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous4:02 am

    Thanks for this site, there is so much resource here but I may found it a day too late. The more I read, the more I feel I may have purchased a dud...sigh. Just bought a Constellation on eBay, with the "automatic" all in lower case in an 14900 sc 61 case and the letter "n" of the "Constellation" not rounded.

    Item number:150612267792

    would love it if could take a look

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  21. Soory to hear that you're disappointed with the watch.

    In looking at the listing and reading the description, I notice that the seller did say the watch dial had been refinished. The refinishing job has not been done to the right specifications, but the dial itself is a genuine pie pan.

    Case is genuine and movement looks quite ok to me.

    At the price you paid, I think that is about market for a redialled 14900, so the news aint that bad :)

    Cheers

    Desmond

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  22. Anonymous9:23 pm

    Thanks a mil for taking a look, I appreciate the feedback. I do love the watch; i was merely questioning its authenticity. I love this design and I will be on the lookout for more, and I feel better armed with the resource you have on your site.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous7:56 pm

    Just like the previous ebayer, I wished I had the knowledge that your blog and other sites have. I may have been a bit too quick on the draw when I decided to purchase the this refinished item 160605251584 on eBay. Any comments on its authenticity?

    ReplyDelete
  24. Case and movement do match. Black dial has been refinished and the Constellation lettering is the incorrect later version.

    Rotor has been replaced by the look of it, but that is often the case.

    Crown is a substitute for the original and now unavailable decagonal crown.

    Price seemed ok though for what you got.

    Cheers

    desmond

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  25. Desmond, thanks so much for your opinion on the pie-pan. I am very relieved with your opinion. I hope that "ok" in reference to the price is a good thing.

    I plan to have it refinished to "how it should be" (I'll be using your pdf on Constellation dials as reference with my watch tech, if you don't mind). To add, I hope to find an old decagon crown for it.

    Many Thanks!

    Cheers!

    Paul

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  26. Upon beginning my "restoration" of 160605251584, I came to notice that there were some pie-pan dials that had an extra insert following the date, and some did not.

    As a comparison,

    http://bp1.blogger.com/_yP7G-V2NSuQ/RrV1jCNGkZI/AAAAAAAAAMA/I8czyHksQ1k/s1600-h/constellation+dials+script.jpg

    has the extra insert, however,

    http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2007/09/white-on-black.html

    did not have such. Is there a specific difference among the two?

    Paul

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi Paul

    I'm assuming you mean that some dials appear to have some kind of under-frame below the metal date surround?

    Omega had a number of dial makers contracted to produce dials, and some piepans almost have a double layered dial. I believe this accounts for the 'sandwich' effect.

    Regards

    Desmond

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  28. Hi Desmond,

    Thanks for the response.

    I was referring to the insert (with the black onyx) to the right of the metal date surround. I've noticed that some pie-pans do not have the extra insert.

    Cheers,
    Paul

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  29. Ah right

    The half marker adjacent to the date surround. Now I understand. Yes there was a variation and some piepans do have the truncated hour marker and others dont.

    Cheers

    desmond

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous3:14 am

    From: BOBEZEE@aol.com
    To: mondodec@tpg.com.au
    Sent: 7/16/2011 3:03:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
    Subj: Watch Winder?


    Hello Desmond,
    Now that I have begun a modest Constellation collection I have a question (questions continually arise) regarding watch winders are they good for maintaining a watch, do they prematurely wear out a watch, and will any watch winder do or only the high end for Constellations? I imagine these are questions other novice collectors would like answered. Thank you again for your previous helpful responses which enabled me to find an English date/dial for my 368.845 from Otto Frie as well proper hands for my 168.029 (with the double t at 6 O'clock).
    Regards,

    Bob Zucconi

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hi Bob

    Nice hearing from you.

    My feeling about watch winders is that they're fine for new watches, but with vintage I tend to feel that because we're talking about a 40 - 50 year old engine, they should probably be left to wind down until next use. Then, with a few initial winds, one can let the auto winding system take over to power up the watch when its being worn.

    I know that can be a bit of a bother with dated models, however I don;t believe in running a vintage unless its on the wrist.

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  32. I found your side, this is very smart! I saw this watch on auction, can you confirm this watch is fake or genuine omega?

    http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=1793424454

    ReplyDelete
  33. Atlantis, I would ask the seller for much bigger pictures of the dial, case back and movement. It is not possible to determine authenticity with the pictures provided by the seller.

    regards

    Desmond

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  34. Can someone inform me if this Omega Constellation is legitimate?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/130577153124

    Thanks

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  35. Yes, totally legit.

    Dial is very nice and you can notice how the tritium at the base of the markers has deteriorated over time. A good sign of an original dial

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  36. dear Desmond. I got already my watch. I sent you over 10 much bigger pictures. could you check it and determine authenticity of this watch best regards Atlantis

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hi Atlantis

    Responded to your email today.

    Cheers

    desmond

    ReplyDelete
  38. Thank you so much for the effort you've gone to in putting this site together. I have long admired vintage Constellations (not so keen on the modern designs) but only recently came across your site.

    Apologies for posting another authenticity question... I found this interesting looking watch on eBay UK. The seller has very good feedback but I'm struggling to find information to confirm Omega ever made this model with the rather nice red second hand. Also the lugs do not seem to conform to your requirement of having faceting...

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1962-OMEGA-CONSTELLATION-STAINLESS-STEEL-SUPERB-AUTOMATIC-/390361643285?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item5ae35df915

    Any insight gratefully received.

    C

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hi Freemans (C)

    This watch is a total franken watch and even though the seller has 100% feedback, he shouldn't with pieces like this. The dial has been refinished in the incorrect Constellation lettering and the red second sweep was never featured on Constellations. The movement has calibre 552 stamped on the train bridge and cal 552s never powered Constellation. The case back medallion is well worn.

    Basically the watch is only good for parts, so my recommendation is to run as fast as you can away from this piece :)

    Cheers

    Desmond

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous10:04 am

    Did you say the lower case "a" fronting "automatic" on Constellations is legit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lower case "automatic" fonts are exclusive to most calibre 700, 711 and 712 models. All others should be upper case

      Cheers

      Desmond

      Delete